Delay before Reverb. Help is needed!

[DannyZ]

Hi there,
This is my first post over here and I hope somebody can help me out with my quest into any useful Delay+Reverb tricks. I've heard that in some productions producers often use delay plug-in before reverb and then they'd apply reverb to the delayed signal. I'm hoping to find some good combination of a delay and reverb plug in and a correct routing in Samplitude 8.2. Also, any suggestions with settings would be very much appreciated. I'm not sure what'd be the best way of adjusting feedback parameters on a delay plug in order to make it as seamless as possible.

Sorry if my question sounds a bit convoluted English is not my first language

[soma]

You are probably better off using seperate delay and reverb VSTs. There is no magic setting. People will often put several delays and reverbs on a track an deff. have done so in the Reverb->delay routing too. That said...

PSP 84 http://www.kvraudio.com/get/509.html is what you want. It's $184 but very nice. You could however use a free delay and a free reverb. As for feedback, that all depends on how long you want the sound to exist.

[multree]

well if your reverb has a predelay knob that is exactly what it does and you can use it in either sends or as an insert effect...

for sends you could also just put a simple sample delay in front of the reverb signal and set the reverb to 100% wet and adjust the amount of verb with the send level....

[multree]

PSP 84 http://www.kvraudio.com/get/509.html is what you want. It's $184 but very nice. You could however use a free delay and a free reverb. As for feedback, that all depends on how long you want the sound to exist.

I'd rather suggest the new delay cuz it has reverb settings for each delay line... pretty cool stuff

[DannyZ]

if your reverb has a predelay knob that is exactly what it does and you can use it in either sends or as an insert effect...

I was thinking that the reason of using delay before reverb rather then just a predelay/reverb function would be to take advantage of an additional saturation that'd come from a delay unit and then smooth it out (or highlight it) even more with a reverb plug-in. I even read somewhere a very good article that was talking about differences between predelay and a dedicated delay plug-in before reverb but I can't find any links to this article.

Thanks for your replies!

P.S multree I just checked your website...WOW! Very cool stuff in there.

[greendoor]

With Insert effects (as opposed to Send) you can apply many different effect pre and post reverb. Using a saturation effect, or eq, or delay might be good pre effects. Using a chorus or phaser either pre or post can add expensive modulation sounds to an otherwise boring reverb. Maybe try a compresser pre or post - there are many options worth trying. Even try combining different reverb plugins. Some have great Early Reflections but lousy tails. Others have nice smooth tails but lousy E.R. Mix and match I say.

[autloc]

If you're using a convolution reverb and your delay doesn't include any non-linear/saturation stages, and neither includes time-varying parameters, it shouldn't make a difference what order you put them in. Conversely, if you want to make the most of your ordering, definitely take advantage of your delay's non-linear characteristics.

[DannyZ]

try combining different reverb plugins. Some have great Early Reflections but lousy tails. Others have nice smooth tails but lousy E.R. Mix and match I say.

Could you please tell me which reverb plugins would you prefer for the early reflections and which once for the tails?...lets say in vocal applications.
Thanks

[DannyZ]

Hi autloc,

Which delay plug-in has the best non-linear characteristics? I'm not looking for any objectivity here. I'm interested in your personal opinion.
Needless to say, I'm making my first steps in the world of plugins so all your tips are very important to me.

Also, what about 2WarpDelay? Can it be used on vocals?

First, I want to find some combinations of plug-in that can just lift already well recorded tracks into air. Then once the first task is accomplished I want to experiment with more upfront use of plugins. Thanks

[greendoor]

Delays and reverbs are just tools that can be used in zillions of ways - there is no 'best' or 'right' one-size-fits all. I would recommend you grab all the freebies from www.kjaerhus.com - especially the delay and reverb.

Start experimenting with just a single delay, no repeats. Listen to the variations of Tape, Analog and Digital to get a feel for how different they sound, and then add some repeats and see how they change with time.

[DannyZ]

there is no 'best' or 'right' one-size-fits all.

Totally agree with you there moreover, I do not plan to skip the experimenting part. I have a long night ahead of me and I intend to enjoy every second of it .
But I'm also curious about others people experiments, thoughts, logistics and revelations regarding this subject.

Thanks

[greendoor]

If you're using a convolution reverb and your delay doesn't include any non-linear/saturation stages, and neither includes time-varying parameters, it shouldn't make a difference what order you put them in.

Sorry, but I beg to differ. I think there is a huge difference between delaying or reverbing a distorted sound, or distorting a delay or reverbed sound. The order makes a big difference. Non-linear effects (distortion) are very much dependant on input, and delays or reverbs will significantly change the input.

This is why guitar effect processors usually have the same chain, with distortion preceding delays and delays preceding reverbs. You can vary them for strange effects, but generally they sound much better in that order.

Edit ooops: misread - you qualified it well, and I agree that without non linear effects, it shouldn't matter how you pre-delay a reverb (before or after).

However - if this is an insert effect, the order is still important.

[DannyZ]

It is 07:39 AM Whole night I was turning every knob I could find here . Thanks again for the suggestions.

[autloc]

Sorry, but I beg to differ. I think there is a huge difference between delaying or reverbing a distorted sound, or distorting a delay or reverbed sound. The order makes a big difference. Non-linear effects (distortion) are very much dependant on input, and delays or reverbs will significantly change the input.

Huh? That is precisely what I said, in slightly different (possibly clearer) words.

DannyZ - sounds like you had a long night In answer to your question, I don't expect that 2WarpDelay would meet your vocal needs (though you never know). Order would certainly matter with it, though, it being highly time-variant and non-linear.

[kritikon]

A one-stop shop for delay+reverb that is very effective if you like the more muddy analogue-ish type delay is RetroDelay from e-phonic. it's just very handy that there's a reverb tacked onto the delay if you want it. I personally only tend to use pretty shortish reverbs on delays.

The reverb is nothing amazing - a bit springy, if anything - but that seems to suit my needs often for those big artificial dub swells. If you're into realism, then maybe this plugin isn't for you. And of course, one of its benefits is that you don't need to muck around with groups and sends to get the right combination of delay and reverb.

QuantumFX from db Audio is a modular FX setup that will let you patch up delays with reverbs and have whatever routing you want too...a bit of a learning curve on QFX though.