Is 11ms latency too much?

[DevonB]

By the way, since this keyboard plugs into the USB post, how much more latency should I expect from that if any?

Totally depends on the USB interface. Some are much worse than others. USB does introduce some latency into the chain though.

Devon

[No name]

About ow much in a worse case scenerio?

[DevonB]

About ow much in a worse case scenerio?

Multiple milliseconds. I know where was a thread on here about MIDI latency. Probably google will turn up latency numbers on certain interfaces. There is a tester program out there that I can't remember the name that will give you how much latency your interface has too, provided you have a MIDI device hooked up to it. Either way, I've seen people perfectly happy at 12ms, and I am happy at no more than 6ms. Anything higher, and I feel the 'disconnect' between me playing a note and the note sounding on my speakers.

Devon

[scamme]

Why don't you get cubase sx demo from 'hitsquad' and use the real ASIO?

[No name]

Because if I do that then it would be pointless considering it is a demo. I could use the real ASIO, but I couldn't use the program to the full unless I buy it, and i'm not really leaning toward cubase as my main host.

[scamme]

ASIO driver is not in 'demo mode' - only the program is.

[headquest]

Are you talking about input latency, output latency, or combined?

I run an M-Audio firewire card set at 256 samples, which gives me input latency of 8.2ms, output the same, combined 16.4. I find that quite bearable for playing in from the keyboard, and I do play some very fast stuff (I trained as a classical player and graduated from the Royal College of Music London). The latency on a church organ is vastly more than anything people complain about with computers.

Obviously with my card I could set the buffer a lot lower and get latency down to around 4ms. It's a trade off... and personally I prefer the larger buffer setting.

The rather unpopular truth of the matter is that true musicians can live with a certain amount of latency and adapt their playing accordingly - it's simply a case of gaining experience with timing.

[Reverse Engineer]

I use kx drivers for my (don't laugh ) sb live 5.1, and my latency (dunno abnout input/output, there's only one setting) is 5.33ms. It can go down to 2.66ms, but i can only run four vsti's max with no effects on top, or 2 with a few select effects on each before it starts messing up. I used to have it up at 11.XXms, but i use my keyboard (yes, the typing one ) more often now as an input device and it was quite noticeable until i lowered it.

[DevonB]

The rather unpopular truth of the matter is that true musicians can live with a certain amount of latency and adapt their playing accordingly - it's simply a case of gaining experience with timing.

Yes it's possible, it's also annoying. Like playing guitar on a wireless from 200 ft away. At least on my system, the CPU load is no different between 6ms and 12ms, but the lag is noticable. Less aggressive timings do give better CPU performance, that's for sure.

Devon

[zircon]

That's as far as I can get with ASIO4all. I really want to buy a keyboard just so I don't have to keep plugging everything in FL with my damn mouse. I was gonna get the keystation because it offers velocity sensitive, semi weighted keys. It will do for now, though I plan to buy a triton in a few months. I need to know if 11ms will be too much to deal with.

11ms is fine. In fact, I've actually recorded with 40ms on my MIDI controller. When you work at 40-50 at all times, every day, 365 days a year, you get used to it. And your CPU will thank you.

[BONES]

Seems to be dependant on your tollerance for latency, and your setup. On my rig, 11ms drives me up a wall. I need 6ms. I think it probably has a lot to do with my MIDI interface introducing too much delay over USB.

You're not serious, are you? How much faster do you think USB is than any 20 year-old hardware MIDI device? 10times? 100? More? MIDI is shockingly slow when you have a decent amount of information flying around. If you are automating paramters as you record, the amount of data your are creating will bring most MIDI set-ups completely undone. In my hardware says I used to quantise my automation to 32nds or even 16ths to keep the timing tight, and I hardly use any automation.

I am so glad that I have absolutely no idea what my latency is, and no way to find out. No Name, my advice is not to worry about it at all. If you don't have a problem, then there is no problem.

[DevonB]

Seems to be dependant on your tollerance for latency, and your setup. On my rig, 11ms drives me up a wall. I need 6ms. I think it probably has a lot to do with my MIDI interface introducing too much delay over USB.

You're not serious, are you? How much faster do you think USB is than any 20 year-old hardware MIDI device? 10times? 100? More? MIDI is shockingly slow when you have a decent amount of information flying around. If you are automating paramters as you record, the amount of data your are creating will bring most MIDI set-ups completely undone. In my hardware says I used to quantise my automation to 32nds or even 16ths to keep the timing tight, and I hardly use any automation.

I am so glad that I have absolutely no idea what my latency is, and no way to find out. No Name, my advice is not to worry about it at all. If you don't have a problem, then there is no problem.

Bones, why would you comment on something that you just admitted you have no knowledge of yourself with your configuration, and don't care to know?

Either way, I know USB adds more latency to the chain. I believe people when they say that 12ms latency, they can't hear a difference from 6ms. My configuration is a Yamaha keyboard, to a Emagic AMT8 to a 6ms buffer on my Pulsar II. Depending on how slow the Yammy is, if it's 10-12ms, then another 3-6ms for the USB MIDI, then another 6ms for the audio buffer, it all stacks up.

But you're right, if you can't hear it, or it doens't bother you, then don't worry about it.

Devon

[Ildon]

Either way, I know USB adds more latency to the chain.

Yep, that's why so many people switch to Firewire.

I've recorded at 80ms before and have been perfectly happy with the results. Sure it's not ideal, but you adapt. 9-11ms is nothing, though. Anything from 2-10ms is usually the best.

[No name]

Interesting. See, even before ASIO4all I was at 20ms, and while I never noticed anything latency delay when pressing keys, I did notice a slight delay when I would try to record onto the pc (I was using my PC keyboard in FL). I've got it set to ten now, and if all goes well then at the most the USB shouldn't add more than about 6ms I assume, so that shouldn't be too bad. I can actually bring the latency lower, but I don't want to risk overpowering my pc when I use a lot of programs and all. I'm actually thinking of picking up a midi control surface too, probably one I seen made by evolution. I just need this stuff to get me by for the mean time. I got bigger and better plans for later, some of which include a new pc which I might end up buying not too long afterwards (after I get the keystation, i've been fortunate enough for a family member to decide to just buy it for me for christmas) then maybe the m audio delta 1010, and i'll go from there. Though I hear the RME soundcards have 0ms latency, anyone own one, and if so is it true?

[Ildon]

Though I hear the RME soundcards have 0ms latency, anyone own one, and if so is it true?

Nope. They only go down to 1.5ms, but even then, there's not really any noticeable difference between 1ms and 6ms.