KVR Audio

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:23 am

hey guys, I currently use Voxengo plugins for mastering. My main question is regarding the software you use to master (not the plugins)...

Is Wavelab 5 the only decent choice ?

I currently use Cubase SL3 for effects processing and Wavelab Lite to trim the final render. But I find this combination a little too difficult to work with.

Is Sony CD Architect worth a try ?

Any other suggestions for mastering software ? I like Wavelab but think it is extremely expensive considering I'd only use the master section and basic editing features (which I already have in the Lite version)

Your help would be most appreciated

Cheers
Fots

rbet · Post by **rbet** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:28 am

T-Racks? Or have I misunderestimated your needs?

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:30 am

lol I'm afraid so, I need something relatively powerful with wave editing abilities too. Basically something that will do a similar job to Wavelab I guess

Any more thoughts ?
Fots

AD80 · Post by **AD80** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:30 am

Try Tracktion. It also includes Final Mix a nice mastering compressor.

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:35 am

yep I actually own Tracktion v1, but as I mentioned, I don't need effects to be honest, it's more the mastering environment. And with Tracktion, I believe you suffer similar problems as Cubase. You need to create an entire new project for each master and also, the wave editing isn't quite as suitable for preparing tracks for a final CD burn.

Good idea though, thanks a lot ! Any more guys ?

Cheers
Fots

Doug1 · Post by **Doug1** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:37 am

Short answer = Samplitude
More expensive than Wavelab.

I would consider Sonar 5, its not designed for mastering but i believe it will process your voxengo plugins more accurately than any other DAW with its 64 bit engine.

AD80 · Post by **AD80** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:37 am

Adobe Audition. Its the best wave editor I've ever used.

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:42 am

Do you guys use your normal DAWs for mastering out of curiosity ? and then trim the final wav files in an audio editor ?

Cheers
Fots

fritzman · Post by **fritzman** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:50 am

soundpalace wrote:Do you guys use your normal DAWs for mastering out of curiosity ? and then trim the final wav files in an audio editor ?

Cheers
Fots

Yes, no. All mastering and editing, everything in Nuendo. Great possibilites, works cool for me. I burn with a seperate program though but big deal to me.

Best wishes, FRitz

For this stuff SX would do the same, it has the same engine.

dusted william · Post by **dusted william** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:56 am

I usually use SoundForge 6.x and load up ozone3,

then I go to town.

that is actualy what I always do.

dw

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:56 am

fritzman, since I use SL3, it is relatively similar to Nuendo, could you please guide me through how you would setup a mastering project and trim your final renders ?

What I do at the moment is this...

1. Produce a track and render it to 44.1 kHz / 24 bit WAV
2. Create a new project in Cubase SL3 and setup all compression, mastering EQ and limiting as required. This also includes dithering.
3. Select the Waveform, hit the "P" button to set the locators to the range of the Waveform.
4. I then render the range as 44.1 kHz / 16 bit wav and trim in Wavelab Lite or Nero Wave Editor.

Your thoughts would be really appreciated, I have heard a lot of people use Cubase / Nuendo for mastering but i'd just like to know how you work with it.

dusted thanks a lot for your help too, of course my main problem is that with Voxengo plugins, I have more than 1 in my mastering chain. I have thought about purchasing energyXT to use as a mastering plugin and save a preset of that as you do with ozone ... nice thought

Cheers
Fots

fritzman · Post by **fritzman** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:16 am

Hi Fots,

what exactly do you mean with "trim" in Wavelab or Nero? Do you meant you're leveling the tracks for the cd so that all fits together?

I work like this (short version): Load all tracks in the right order(if already known), check all tracks how they fit together and check which general sound treatments have to be done to reach a certain overall sound, add my plugins to the single tracks inserts, master the single tracks (edit problems, enhance sound, create fades) and compare them to the rest inbetween. I check levels and sound to make sure that the tracks fit together. In between it can be a good idea to check with reference projects if you're shooting for a certain sound. If all is well then export the tracks one after the other and make your cd. Before exporting the tracks everything should be exactly as it has to be, don't edit anything later. If it has to be changed, go back to this mastering project and do it there and export again.

All the best, FRitz

P.S. Don't make any fades when mixing, do them in the mastering. Leave out as much master fx during mixdown as you can and do as much final track treatment as you can while mastering. Don't dither when mixing down, this is a mastering thing. If you run into problems of tracks not fitting together you could try to master with groups like drums, bass, vocal(s), etc. Then make a more more detailed mix/mastering mixture when you have all tracks side by side.
I hope that was clear and helps, if not just ask or tell me.

4damind · Post by **4damind** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:29 am

Cubase is a great mastering tool too

There is no need for others like Wavelab (only for special stuff like 5.1 Audio DVD).
Do you mean with "trim" normalizing and DC offset removal? I don't use it. But of course is easy to make this in cubase...

mr.me · Post by **mr.me** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:31 am

I use sounforge and CD architect, they work great for me.

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:59 am

fritzman, 4damind and mr.me thank you all for your assistance.

fritzman, your explanation makes great sense and it is another way I had thought of mastering with Cubase. So what you're saying is, setup the full CD the way it is going to be in Cubase, one track after the other. Also, add all mastering to each track and ensure everything sounds similar in EQ and loudness (normal mastering process). So if you press play from the start and listen, you will basically be hearing the whole CD, track after track. Then you export the seperate tracks from the full CD length production as WAV files and burn to CD. Is this correct? Very nice idea. The main thing I would like to be careful of is this...

If tracks 1 & 2 have no silence in between them (i.e. one track fades into the other for instance), then you must be careful that the length (in samples) each WAV render is a multiple of 588 because this is how large a sector is on a CD. Have you heard this one before ? If it is not a multiple of 588, then the remaining samples will be padded with silence and you will end up with a little gap when burning to CD.

Eseentially, most albums I have created in the past have no mixing between songs (like I have mentioned above although most my new stuff will not have silence between tracks), it is usually song, silence, song, silence ... etc. So what I'd normally do is...

1. Render the original track (no mastering effects at all) This export also includes some silence before and after the song of course...
2. Add mastering effects in Cubase
3. Trim the leading and trailing silence from the exported WAV file and burn to CD.

Essentially when I say trim, I simply mean remove silence before and after the track and do my fade out's if necessary.

fritzman I think i'll start using your suggestion from now on. But any idea about the CD sector problem I have mentioned ?

Thanks a lot for all your help folks, it is most appreciated !

Cheers
Fots

Mastering Software Suggestions