Logic 5x pc to Cubase sx3?

[Miro]

I see that there is a crossgrade offer going about for SX3 that has me wondering...

At the moment, I use logic 5x on PC for both MIDI and audio work. The things that I like about Logic are the automation parameters and some of the native effects such as Tape delay and the platinum reverb.

What I hate are the audio editing facilities and the 1 gig ram limit.

I have never used any other host for a long period of time (only demo versions) and so am curious about what kind of horrors or "ooh!"s are awaiting me if I DO take the plunge.

Any comments welcomed

[Sascha Franck]

OK, this is all strictly IMHO.

- You'll be faced with a horrible waste of space. Dual monitor setups aren't supported as good either. There's buttons everywhere.
- Get used to your mouse allready... you'll need it way more with SX, even in case you set up your own keycommands.
- Forget about loops. What a brilliant feature in Logic.
- Forget about multiple, linked editors opened simultaneously.
- Forget about easy reordering of plugins. Impossible in SX.
- SX is not as efficient. Expect some 20-50% higher CPU useage, especially in low latency performance (512 samples buffersize and below).
- No velocity tool in Matrix/Key edit. Quite a drawback for me.
- No recording of VST plugin parameter movements as MIDI data. I use that all the time in Logic.
- No customizeable mixer in SX. You can hide some things but that's about it.
- Along similar lines, each multiout plugin will create a plethora of mixer channels that you'll have to hide, shouldn't you need them. And should you need them later on, you gotta unhide them, then re-hide the ones you're still not using. Bleh...
- No proper VSTi channel strip at the left. Somewhat there but still a LOOOONG way to go.
- The solo modes will drive you nuts as soon as you have your mixer or an editor opened on top of your project window. They're as f**ked up as things could get.
- No extracting of MIDI notes from an audio file (highly useable to create, say, a trigger drum track).
- Automation is WAY more blurried. Really, WAY more!
- Internal FX and synths? Forget about it. Some are OK-ish, but you'll find better freeware for each of them. No ES2, no EVD6, no EVB3, no EVOC, nothing as efficient as EVP88, no EXS (still one of the most efficient samplers). There might be replacements for the delay, yet, they're not as efficient and easy to use as Logics internal ones. Personally, I also find FatEQ and Compressor to be useful for easy tasks. You may find replacements though, but most likely they won't be as efficient.

On the other hand, audio editing is *quite* more flexible in SX. Also, the engine seems to sound quite great (probably related to panning laws).
Then, you can freeze tracks before starting to mix.
And there's full PDC, which actually makes a lot of sense should you be using things such as SIR (which introduce a fairly high internal latency).

Personally, I still can't switch away from Logic when it comes to anything regarding composing and arranging. The workflow is just incredibly efficient.
As soon as it comes to mixing, SX might be a better choice though.
If you are a LOT into MIDI editing and arranging, I can only recommend staying with Logic (at least for a while) and probably get Energy XT as some "performance booster" (for layering of VSTis, better VST compatibility and the likes). If you are more into audio recording and mixing, you may consider switching allready.

As said, all IMO, and I may as well have forgotten quite some things.

[Miro]

Wow. Thanks loads for taking that time, Sascha. Food for thought indeed

"If you are a LOT into MIDI editing and arranging..."
yeh, that's me
- No velocity tool in Matrix/Key edit

Aw..if only that 1gig thing was fixed...

[Kingston]

(hehe, I was waiting for saschas always comprehensive logic vs SX nitpick list, some ought to combine a list like that coming from steiny school)

I come from almost the same school of Logic composing and editing as Sascha and I can't do anything but agree with nearly everything he said.

But it's been a year of adjusting to the workflow of Cubase SX and it's really getting closer and closer to what I used to have with logic. Cubase SX loves big screens and mice, and keycommands. I've got all of them customised and thought out, and my mouse has 7 customisable buttons. Well, edit speed is finally blazing fast.

Once adjusted, there's nearly nothing that is inferior to logic, just slighly different.

[Sascha Franck]

"If you are a LOT into MIDI editing and arranging..."
yeh, that's me

You may then also consider that there's no visual display of quantization settings in Cubase. No comparison of quantize settings between tracks/parts therefor either (a breeze in Logic, you just click them and watch your (extended) parameter box). No proper gradual swinging/shuffling either, you'll end up pressing "apply" and the likes a lot.

Aw..if only that 1gig thing was fixed...

Yes, that's really annoying. There's a halfassed fix around (some win.ini stuff, don't remember), but it really won't do much and it will still not fix the audio merging function not to be fux0red (at least that's my experience).
I really wish I could just slap some more 3 GBs of RAM into my machine. Impossible for reasons of convenience.

[Sascha Franck]

Once adjusted, there's nearly nothing that is inferior to logic, just slighly different.

Unfortunately, for my workflow, there's still some rather big issues being way different...

[Kingston]

You may then also consider that there's no visual display of quantization settings in Cubase. No comparison of quantize settings between tracks/parts therefor either (a breeze in Logic, you just click them and watch your (extended) parameter box). No proper gradual swinging/shuffling either, you'll end up pressing "apply" and the likes a lot.

I'm actually growing quite fond of the cubase quantisation. I've shortcuts for the (thankfully extended) quantisation box, and short cuts for quantise (apply) and iterative quantise (which is what I always use).

It doesn't really get more visual than actually seeing the notes nudge when clicking the iterative button. I prefer this iterative "coloring pallette" to the logic quantise sliders.

[steffensen]

"No proper gradual swinging/shuffling either, you'll end up pressing "apply" and the likes a lot. "

so whats the Quantize setup and Auto apply about then?
just click auto and drag the swing fader as u like and watch the notes adjust.

or did i missunderstand u now Sasha?

[Sascha Franck]

It doesn't really get more visual than actually seeing the notes nudge when clicking the iterative button.

It does when you can access things straight in your arrange.
Select a sequence in Logic = instant visual information of the used q-settings. There's no such thing in Cubase, not even close.

[Robot5]

Aw..if only that 1gig thing was fixed...

What's the '1 Gig' thing?
I seem to remember something about not being able to use the join tool, what else does it affect, and how does it affect the join tool?


Rob

[Kingston]

Select a sequence in Logic = instant visual information of the used q-settings. There's no such thing in Cubase, not even close.

Oh that. rarely relied on it myself. I always thought adjusting quantise from arrange was like playing lottery and then ended up doing it from piano roll. Hence I like the feel of added control of the q setup box. (instead of being somewhat confined to setting it up from the arrange page)

Anyway, I'm a bit tired of the nitpick game as I like both of the apps a lot and find them equally frustrating or forgiving depending on work paradigm. (trust me sascha you CAN learn to like cubase, instead of endlessly ranting about subtle work environment differences)

[Sascha Franck]

(trust me sascha you CAN learn to like cubase, instead of endlessly ranting about subtle work environment differences)

Right now I am in serious doubt about it.
And well, you know, I even *have* to use Cubase as I'm teaching it in some "PC music" classes at the local conservatory.

[Kingston]

yeah, I've seen you mention the fact you have to use it for teaching. Which makes it all the more surprising you haven't been able to adjust to it. For me it was a question of small paradigm shift, not a world that fights against all my intentions.

[Sascha Franck]

I *am* able to adjust to Cubase. I still don't like it at all though. Let alone feeling comfortable when faced with all that pile of jelly-beanish crap.

[Kingston]

jelly-beanish crap.

I always thought the look was more fisher-price.

new nuendo looks good, and it's a shame you can't have that color scheme on SX. It's more ergonomic and easier for the eyes.