I'm presently using Cubase VST 5.1 happy with it, but I want to get a new system, as I have a P4 1.6 ghz.
Since I am going to get a new computer I might as well go the win XP (curr. on win 98SE), I'm not sure how well Cubase VST 5.1 will run in XP, I've read there are some issues. I've been also looking at SX3, but I hate the dongle, I have the serial Dongle for VST and it was a pain in the beginning, esp when I had a printer hooked up. I don't like the idea of the USB dongle, I mean I know that it doesn't stop Piracy, SX3 is available as a crack.
So I've been looking at Sonar which I believe only has a serial number. I've read it runs VSTi's which is a major issue for me, and it also has to have good midi capapbilties.
Any thoughts??
Sonar or Cubase?? IS there much of a difference
-
- KVRist
- 206 posts since 15 Apr, 2004 from Toronto, Canuckistan
-
- KVRAF
- 19156 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
Jeez...Cubase VST 5...man, I would think you'd want to go with SX 3, cos they apparently re-introduced some stuff that they took out from VST 5, but if you can't handle the dongle (IMHO, the USB dongle is fine, no problems here - much better than the old Serial!), then that's too bad. I think you'd find SX to be an amazing upgrade from VST. More than one undo! 
I've used both Sonar and Cubase, but in the reverse order. I migrated to Cubase because it had richer MIDI capabilites at the time. Now, of course, they're much closer. You'd probably find it easier to migrate to SX 3, but all I can recommend is to download the demos and give them a spin.
There are also the other options, like Traktion, Live, etc. I don't know how they stand up to VST 5 because I know that had some of the most comprehensive MIDI editing features of any sequencer then or since.
Definitely go demo-hunting. They're both not cheap!
I've used both Sonar and Cubase, but in the reverse order. I migrated to Cubase because it had richer MIDI capabilites at the time. Now, of course, they're much closer. You'd probably find it easier to migrate to SX 3, but all I can recommend is to download the demos and give them a spin.
There are also the other options, like Traktion, Live, etc. I don't know how they stand up to VST 5 because I know that had some of the most comprehensive MIDI editing features of any sequencer then or since.
Definitely go demo-hunting. They're both not cheap!
-
- KVRian
- 1302 posts since 9 Oct, 2003 from California
Great question!
I don't think anyone has ever asked.."what's better Sonar or Cubase?"
There is an extremely high probability that either one of them will be more than enough host for anyone.
Unless you have some esoteric musical need, it is absurd to say one is better than the other. It simply comes down to workflow. The only way you will know is trying both in demo form or from a buddy that has it installed.
I have used both since Cakewalk 6 and the first Cubase VST. There's not a dime's difference in general capabilites, etc. I have never been able to warm up to Cakewalk's way of doing things so I prefer CUbase. But that's all it is...a preference. Anything I can do in Cubase I can essentially do in Sonar and the other way around.
Now for the real answer...
Live 5 is the ONLY real "best choice"
Dan
I don't think anyone has ever asked.."what's better Sonar or Cubase?"
There is an extremely high probability that either one of them will be more than enough host for anyone.
Unless you have some esoteric musical need, it is absurd to say one is better than the other. It simply comes down to workflow. The only way you will know is trying both in demo form or from a buddy that has it installed.
I have used both since Cakewalk 6 and the first Cubase VST. There's not a dime's difference in general capabilites, etc. I have never been able to warm up to Cakewalk's way of doing things so I prefer CUbase. But that's all it is...a preference. Anything I can do in Cubase I can essentially do in Sonar and the other way around.
Now for the real answer...
Live 5 is the ONLY real "best choice"
Dan
Those that can, do. Those that can't, argue about it on k-v-r
-
- KVRAF
- 2312 posts since 9 Jun, 2002 from East of Santa Monica
Before this devolves into a Cubase vs Sonar thread, I'll get this in.
They are both powerful, capable hosts. As far as copy-protection, Sonar 5 is still only serial number, but you will need to register to get a key.
And since v.5 has only just been released, it's a bit buggy. If you're not a power user, you may never even encounter an issue, but 5.1 (or 5.01, whatever they choose to call it) hopefully will be out by the end of the year, and will take care of those issues anyway. Unfortunately, right now there is no demo for V.5 available (to my knowledge) - although the one for v4 may still be there.
I've been a happy Sonar user since v2.2, and now use v.4. I plan to upgrade to v.5 after the new year.
I don't have any knowledge of Cubase SX, so can't comment on it.
Now, as far as this thread goes, all you're going to get here are subjective opinions from people on what is good for THEM. You really should download the demos and try both for yourself (I think Sonar v.4 is probably close enough to v.5 to give you a good feel for it).
Good luck, and have fun!
JD
They are both powerful, capable hosts. As far as copy-protection, Sonar 5 is still only serial number, but you will need to register to get a key.
And since v.5 has only just been released, it's a bit buggy. If you're not a power user, you may never even encounter an issue, but 5.1 (or 5.01, whatever they choose to call it) hopefully will be out by the end of the year, and will take care of those issues anyway. Unfortunately, right now there is no demo for V.5 available (to my knowledge) - although the one for v4 may still be there.
I've been a happy Sonar user since v2.2, and now use v.4. I plan to upgrade to v.5 after the new year.
I don't have any knowledge of Cubase SX, so can't comment on it.
Now, as far as this thread goes, all you're going to get here are subjective opinions from people on what is good for THEM. You really should download the demos and try both for yourself (I think Sonar v.4 is probably close enough to v.5 to give you a good feel for it).
Good luck, and have fun!
JD
-
- KVRist
- 40 posts since 14 Oct, 2004 from Dunno
hey pal, did you know that CUBASE SX 3 HAS BEEN CRACKED BY THE H20 TEAM??? the piracy will never get stopped, man... the dongle at the end of the day is unsuitable 
But I vote for Cubase... isn't cheap but it's perfect to work in a profesional studio!
But I vote for Cubase... isn't cheap but it's perfect to work in a profesional studio!
Last edited by Dj Mu7!L80R on Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
-
- KVRAF
- 19156 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 206 posts since 15 Apr, 2004 from Toronto, Canuckistan
Thanks for the replies,
I think it looks like Cubase sx although I will try the Sonar demo. I have found my comfort zone with VST so I will ave to pick a good time for my upgrade of comp and s/w. I think I should leave a month open for possible problems and learning issues. I'm in the middle of mixing for a CD right now, so I'll put it off to the new year.
I think it looks like Cubase sx although I will try the Sonar demo. I have found my comfort zone with VST so I will ave to pick a good time for my upgrade of comp and s/w. I think I should leave a month open for possible problems and learning issues. I'm in the middle of mixing for a CD right now, so I'll put it off to the new year.
-
- KVRAF
- 19156 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
Can you get a Sonar 4 demo? They're very similar, Sonar 4 and 5, I'd say.P.T. wrote:The problem is that there is no Sonar 5 demo yet and I have heard that it is a faily big upgrade.
-
- KVRian
- 1238 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from Kentucky
Change is hard if you really know your DAW and it works well for you. I hate dongles and am glad that Cakewalk has never gone that way. I've been with Cakewalk from Cakewalk vs. 1 through Sonar 5. Occasionally I will try a lite version of Cubase that comes with hardware but I'm always lost, just as most Cubase users are probably lost the first time they load up a Sonar demo or lite version.
I will say that Sonar makes it very easy to use MIDI loops and Acid loops. You can get an idea down in a hurry.
Robert
I will say that Sonar makes it very easy to use MIDI loops and Acid loops. You can get an idea down in a hurry.
Robert
All I need to be happy is one more VSTi.
-
- KVRAF
- 8715 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand
Musiclinks...alot of it depends on how long you've been using VST5. If you've got used to Cubase over alot of years, I'd just say stick with Cubase. Some things will be different, but on the whole, the change from VST -> SX is not that much of a brain-ache. I dreaded it when I upgraded, and I do admit that it infuriated me for a few days...but now I've got comfortable with it, and learnt to do some things in ever-so-slightly different ways, it's all OK, and I appreciate why they changed some of the things they did. I also admit I got straight into customising it too soon - and consequently did a few silly things that made working with SX more difficult than it should have done. It made me mad I couldn't bounce things - turned out it was me who'd reset so many things that the bounce command no longer worked where it should have done. Doh! The sample editor irritated me, until I finally learnt that you simply had to choose "events to part" so that you could chop up audio traditionally without it moving position. Doh!
Busses really really irritated me, as I had to use so many of them to route things where I wanted - e.g. you can't reroute FX returns to groups - you have to use a group as an FX return instead, and then reroute the group onto another group if you then want to mix FX with dry instruments and use a compressor on them....which I still find irritating, but the bonus was that I discovered I could reroute most of my soundcard outs and ins simply by Cubase busses rather than repatching and fiddling with my soundcard editor. Doh!
Anyway...my point is that you know you're going to come across infuriations like that (which usually go away with patience and persistence) same as you would if you went from Sonar2->Sonar5. Or Logic3->Logic6 (although you'd have difficulties with absolutely any version of Logic
). But those difficulties are going to be an infinite level higher if you also swap platforms.
SX exasperated me so much that I very nearly went over to Tracktion (it was the only one that I could fathom out without reading much of the manual - which is usually a good sign), but ultimately it just didn't do enough compared to Cubase. Sonar will do enough, but it'll be so much more different in actual use to SX because of that.
But when it boils down to it - the differences in SX are much less than the similarities. It's good old familiar Cubase, and it does an awful lot more than VST5 did. It's also getting closer to VST5 with many of the to-die-for features that for some unfathomable reason they got rid of when SX first came out. Very soon it will be VST5 for the modern day - which is what it always should have been. The audio editing is just way ahead of VST5. Automation is also way ahead. Even routing (although not perfect yet) is ahead - although alot more circuitous (unnecessarily IMO).
And the main thing - the sound - you really will hear a big difference in the sound engine. I had to go back several times to see if my ears were deceiving me - the extra bump in quality of the audio mixing from VST5->SX were astounding.
Do you want to learn a whole new host in Sonar?
At least 60-70% of SX is a piece of cake from VST5. My advice when you do get it, is RTFM. Use the idiot guide setup book and actually humour them and run through it. Don't modify it, or change it until you've used it straight from the box. I wish I'd done that, so I could have realised what they intended with some features, instead of trying to make it just like VST5 - which didn't work.
Busses really really irritated me, as I had to use so many of them to route things where I wanted - e.g. you can't reroute FX returns to groups - you have to use a group as an FX return instead, and then reroute the group onto another group if you then want to mix FX with dry instruments and use a compressor on them....which I still find irritating, but the bonus was that I discovered I could reroute most of my soundcard outs and ins simply by Cubase busses rather than repatching and fiddling with my soundcard editor. Doh!
Anyway...my point is that you know you're going to come across infuriations like that (which usually go away with patience and persistence) same as you would if you went from Sonar2->Sonar5. Or Logic3->Logic6 (although you'd have difficulties with absolutely any version of Logic
). But those difficulties are going to be an infinite level higher if you also swap platforms.SX exasperated me so much that I very nearly went over to Tracktion (it was the only one that I could fathom out without reading much of the manual - which is usually a good sign), but ultimately it just didn't do enough compared to Cubase. Sonar will do enough, but it'll be so much more different in actual use to SX because of that.
But when it boils down to it - the differences in SX are much less than the similarities. It's good old familiar Cubase, and it does an awful lot more than VST5 did. It's also getting closer to VST5 with many of the to-die-for features that for some unfathomable reason they got rid of when SX first came out. Very soon it will be VST5 for the modern day - which is what it always should have been. The audio editing is just way ahead of VST5. Automation is also way ahead. Even routing (although not perfect yet) is ahead - although alot more circuitous (unnecessarily IMO).
And the main thing - the sound - you really will hear a big difference in the sound engine. I had to go back several times to see if my ears were deceiving me - the extra bump in quality of the audio mixing from VST5->SX were astounding.
Do you want to learn a whole new host in Sonar?
At least 60-70% of SX is a piece of cake from VST5. My advice when you do get it, is RTFM. Use the idiot guide setup book and actually humour them and run through it. Don't modify it, or change it until you've used it straight from the box. I wish I'd done that, so I could have realised what they intended with some features, instead of trying to make it just like VST5 - which didn't work.
-
- KVRAF
- 19156 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
Another lengthy entry by Kritikon! Word. I'm starting to forget which "Cubase vs" thread I'm in...
I can vouch for messing up the Key Commands! One of the first things I did was totally customize tons of commands, including the arrow keys. And I just learned, like, a couple weeks ago that you can perform almost all the basic Piano Roll navigation and edits solely with the arrow keys - if you don't alter them. Now I'm working even faster than before.
Love the Key Commands in Cubase, so customizable and flexible. Actually, that was one of the biggest draws for me from CWPA/Sonar, come to think of it.
I can vouch for messing up the Key Commands! One of the first things I did was totally customize tons of commands, including the arrow keys. And I just learned, like, a couple weeks ago that you can perform almost all the basic Piano Roll navigation and edits solely with the arrow keys - if you don't alter them. Now I'm working even faster than before.
Love the Key Commands in Cubase, so customizable and flexible. Actually, that was one of the biggest draws for me from CWPA/Sonar, come to think of it.
-
- KVRAF
- 8715 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand
What? Me...verbose? Never...
Yeah - the arrow keys - It took me a while to start using those. It is so much quicker to edit piano roll stuff. I still occasionally get lost in key commands, but just that little addition makes single and multiple note editing a breeze compared to old. Even things like the mouse wheel - I buggered that up somehow when I first re-configured SX (not sure how...) but when I reinstalled it and used the default version - wow! changing values with a scroll wheel is such an improvement. It still ticks me off that you can't change note lengths the same way though .
I actually use the mouse (well...trackball) for midi editing alot more than the logical editor nowadays.
Yeah - the arrow keys - It took me a while to start using those. It is so much quicker to edit piano roll stuff. I still occasionally get lost in key commands, but just that little addition makes single and multiple note editing a breeze compared to old. Even things like the mouse wheel - I buggered that up somehow when I first re-configured SX (not sure how...) but when I reinstalled it and used the default version - wow! changing values with a scroll wheel is such an improvement. It still ticks me off that you can't change note lengths the same way though
.I actually use the mouse (well...trackball) for midi editing alot more than the logical editor nowadays.