I'm curious (and a little worried!):
I have two basic .ext files that I use; one default and one for testing VSTs in. The default is fairly simple, I have ten plugins loaded in total, 7 of which are in the main window, two of which were loaded in the sequencer (energyXT VST version), and one of which is inside on of those.
No midi data or anything else, just a few links, a sequencer etc. It takes up 35.6kb.
The testing.ext is more complex and yet less so; I have a sequencer creating MIDI data which sends out into four loaded plugins in the main window, which each run through one VST effect. This means, admittedly, I have 13 VST plugins loaded.
This file takes up 1.12mb. Quite a large difference, and I doubt MIDI data takes that much space!
Which leads me further...
I have one completed track which totals 1.26mb. It uses 22 plugins, has a fair amount of MIDI data. Three of these plugins are energyXT VST version.
I have another two in progress tracks; one of them is 413kb and it uses 22 or 23 plugins (something like that), but is much smaller. As far as MIDI data is concerned, it is complete. Six of these plugins are energyXT VST version. The other file does admittedly use many less plugins and takes up 336kb.
It seems strange to me. I can't seem to find something definite that takes up the space. It's not samples, as the only samples I'm loading are through Shortcircuit and sfz both of which load them from file locations rather than being embedded. It's not VSTs, at least I don't think so, because I have two tracks with about the same number but 800kb difference in size. It's not MIDI.
What could it possibly be? I'm not losing anything by using energyXT inside energyXT am I? Should I be saving .ext files of those projects I use inside a project?
Why does a less complex .ext file take more space?
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- KVRAF
- 10366 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK
Yep, beats me too.
I have one test project with 4 Sequencers in it, each with (about) 10 tracks of 100 bars.
No Audio - just MIDI.
File size? = 4.2 MB !
Here's a guess, I think you get 1 MB with each Sequencer.
I have one test project with 4 Sequencers in it, each with (about) 10 tracks of 100 bars.
No Audio - just MIDI.
File size? = 4.2 MB !
Here's a guess, I think you get 1 MB with each Sequencer.
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- KVRian
- 976 posts since 29 Aug, 2001 from Waynesboro, PA
I don't think that is it. I just created a test project with 5 sequencers, each with eXT loaded as a VST with a sequencer loaded inside each VST. Each sequencer has two tracks of MIDI data, 10 bars long.DarkStar wrote:Here's a guess, I think you get 1 MB with each Sequencer.
file size: 63kb
It's definitely not the sequencer all by itself.
DarkStar,
what happens if you clear out all of the MIDI data from the sequencers? What kind of file size do you get then?
Druid,
exactly what VST are being using in your setup?
I tried adding copies of SFZ to each of the sequencers inside the eXT VST comps. The file size with no SF's loaded into SFZ...72kb.
Does it seem to matter if you have SF's loaded in SFZ or how big the SF's are?
as a side note, I did come across a bug in EnergyXT.
- Load eXT as a VSTi inside the sequencer.
- Load a sequencer into the VSTi.
- Open the VSTi.
- Open the sequencer inside the VSTi.
- Close the sequencer (or not as it doesn't seem to matter).
- Close the VSTi.
When I do this, the EXE window minimizes. Does this happen for anybody else?
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- KVRAF
- 10366 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK
More and more curious.
As piranha XT suggested, I deleted all the MIDI, the result is a project with 4 empty sequencers, size 62KB. That looked a good start.
I then reloaded the original project, deleted three sequencers, keeping just one with MIDI in it, the resulting proejct size is 2192KB
I exported the MIDI as a MIDI file and its size was 159KB.
I created a new arrangement, imported that MIDI file and saved the project, the resulting file size was 4327 KB.
So, with my primitive, inconclusive experiments loading a 159 KB of MIDI file increased the .ext file size by 2127 KB.
As piranha XT suggested, I deleted all the MIDI, the result is a project with 4 empty sequencers, size 62KB. That looked a good start.
I then reloaded the original project, deleted three sequencers, keeping just one with MIDI in it, the resulting proejct size is 2192KB
I exported the MIDI as a MIDI file and its size was 159KB.
I created a new arrangement, imported that MIDI file and saved the project, the resulting file size was 4327 KB.
So, with my primitive, inconclusive experiments loading a 159 KB of MIDI file increased the .ext file size by 2127 KB.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1601 posts since 24 Jun, 2004 from Australia
Well here's what I've done with the 1.26mb completed track of mine:
- I tried replacing all VST plugins with the same plugin to reset all sample data (in other words, make them so they aren't loading or even linking to any samples). Size of the file was exactly the same (well, maybe not to the byte, I didn't check, but to the tenth of a megabyte).
- I removed all MIDI parts from the sequencer (I only have one sequencer). It reduced the file to 1.07mb. That still doesn't take much, so something else is doing it.
- Deleted the entire sequencer. It reduced the file to 20.8kb!
- After switching to another window after I saved it to see the filesize, energyXT crashed (not the usual EAccess violation or whatever that error is that I usually get).
- I had to re-copy it to test further. I deleted all VST plugins outside the sequencer. This makes up one limiter, five visualisers, and one notes. It reduced it to 1.24mb, which is not much reduction. Seems to me that it is something to do with the sequencer.
- I then tried deleting the first VST inside the sequencer, "piano" which was energyXT VSTi and within that there was sfz, a volume (VST not native mixer) and delay plugin. energyXT just disappeared. I tried deleting it by right+clicking in the main mixer and deleting it that way, if it helps for any further debugging etc.
- I tried it again, and it worked this time. 1.22mb. Same reduction, and not much.
- Removed the next one, which was energyXT VSTi with Superwave P8 inside, as well as a volume VST. More dramatic this time, at 1.17mb, but still only .05mb.
- Removed the next; 1.16mb. It was only Triangle II.
- Removed the next; And woomph. Down to 234kb. Plugin was Drumatic 3. That's a large saving state. I'd like to point out that my other large file, testing.ext, also uses this plugin. Think I found the culprit.
- For the sake of completing something half (un)done, I removed the next; 222kb. It was energyXT VSTi with sfz, chorus, and delay inside. Not a big change, to be expected after seeing the effect of removing my piano VST.
- Removed the next and last; 212kb. Shortcircuit only.
- Then deleted all MIDI again; 37.0kb.
- For ocnsistency, I loaded up testing.ext and removed the Drumatic 3 VST from it. 1.12mb down to 183kb, case in point.
My conclusion is that the MIDI data is taking more or less the correct amount of space. The sequencer itself isn't much either. VSTs aren't taking all that much with one exception: Drumatic 3.
My recommendation would be to check if you're using Drumatic 3 anywhere, and see if that's what the problem is. I doubt the cause is a synthedit creation since I was also using Superwave P8. Drumatic must just have a lot of data to save... Though I can't imagine why it has that much unless some form of samples are being saved inside the plugin.
DarkStar: Your problem is weird, I don't know what to make of that.
- I tried replacing all VST plugins with the same plugin to reset all sample data (in other words, make them so they aren't loading or even linking to any samples). Size of the file was exactly the same (well, maybe not to the byte, I didn't check, but to the tenth of a megabyte).
- I removed all MIDI parts from the sequencer (I only have one sequencer). It reduced the file to 1.07mb. That still doesn't take much, so something else is doing it.
- Deleted the entire sequencer. It reduced the file to 20.8kb!
- After switching to another window after I saved it to see the filesize, energyXT crashed (not the usual EAccess violation or whatever that error is that I usually get).
- I had to re-copy it to test further. I deleted all VST plugins outside the sequencer. This makes up one limiter, five visualisers, and one notes. It reduced it to 1.24mb, which is not much reduction. Seems to me that it is something to do with the sequencer.
- I then tried deleting the first VST inside the sequencer, "piano" which was energyXT VSTi and within that there was sfz, a volume (VST not native mixer) and delay plugin. energyXT just disappeared. I tried deleting it by right+clicking in the main mixer and deleting it that way, if it helps for any further debugging etc.
- I tried it again, and it worked this time. 1.22mb. Same reduction, and not much.
- Removed the next one, which was energyXT VSTi with Superwave P8 inside, as well as a volume VST. More dramatic this time, at 1.17mb, but still only .05mb.
- Removed the next; 1.16mb. It was only Triangle II.
- Removed the next; And woomph. Down to 234kb. Plugin was Drumatic 3. That's a large saving state. I'd like to point out that my other large file, testing.ext, also uses this plugin. Think I found the culprit.
- For the sake of completing something half (un)done, I removed the next; 222kb. It was energyXT VSTi with sfz, chorus, and delay inside. Not a big change, to be expected after seeing the effect of removing my piano VST.
- Removed the next and last; 212kb. Shortcircuit only.
- Then deleted all MIDI again; 37.0kb.
- For ocnsistency, I loaded up testing.ext and removed the Drumatic 3 VST from it. 1.12mb down to 183kb, case in point.
My conclusion is that the MIDI data is taking more or less the correct amount of space. The sequencer itself isn't much either. VSTs aren't taking all that much with one exception: Drumatic 3.
My recommendation would be to check if you're using Drumatic 3 anywhere, and see if that's what the problem is. I doubt the cause is a synthedit creation since I was also using Superwave P8. Drumatic must just have a lot of data to save... Though I can't imagine why it has that much unless some form of samples are being saved inside the plugin.
DarkStar: Your problem is weird, I don't know what to make of that.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1601 posts since 24 Jun, 2004 from Australia
Also piranha XT: I tried that and sure enough it did the same for me. However, upon trying it a second time with the same window after maximising it again, I could not repeat the problem.
Weird.
Weird.
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- KVRian
- 976 posts since 29 Aug, 2001 from Waynesboro, PA
Drumatic does make a HUGE difference. I have a test project that has four instances of Synth1, two instances of Drumatic (1 is v3, 1 is v2.2), one instance of Trollo and a sequencer with MIDI data. File size: 1.8mb Take out both instances of Drumatic & the file size drops to 36k.
Furious is another file bloater! I had a simple test project that used one instance of Synth1, one instance of Furious, two MIDI parts, Trollo & a Sampler with 4 sliced beats. File size: 12mb. I replaced Furious with WuzikStation & the file size dropped to 2.5mb.
More window wierdness...
I found two conditions under which this bug doesn't occur...
1)The SA's sequencer is open. (It doesn't seem to matter if other SA comps are open)
2)The SA window is maximized.
Furious is another file bloater! I had a simple test project that used one instance of Synth1, one instance of Furious, two MIDI parts, Trollo & a Sampler with 4 sliced beats. File size: 12mb. I replaced Furious with WuzikStation & the file size dropped to 2.5mb.
More window wierdness...
I found two conditions under which this bug doesn't occur...
1)The SA's sequencer is open. (It doesn't seem to matter if other SA comps are open)
2)The SA window is maximized.