What is best to use for a dither? Live does not use a dither algorithm, it merely converts from 24 to 16 on rendering.
I would have to use my CD-R on my computer (PC), since I do not yet have a CD recorder.
Should I:
1) Use Voxengo Elephant limit and dither on the Master before rendering
2) Render to 24 bit and then use Sound Forge 8 to dither to 16bit, and then use CD architect to burn.
3) Do it another way, use another VST, or use another external device (and get a CD burner)
I have an Apogee Mini-Me and Mini-Dac. The Mini-Me has a the UV22 dither, but I wouldn't know how to use this. The only way that I figured I could make use of the Apogee dither is to have the mini-dac connected to Ableton Live by USB and then have XLR out into the mini-me and then use the dither on the mini-me with a digital output to a CD recorder or use the RCA output. (This just doesn't seem right to me.)
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
dithering
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- Banned
- 82 posts since 28 Oct, 2005
Hi feyshay.
I think you should set up you mastering chain what ever way you wish and insert the dither last. Set it at 16 bits and your done.
As far as which dither, if you have a decent set of speakers i would render the file or audition all your dithering options as they will all sound different.
Its up to you then to choose which 1 will be suited to the current song.
The dither you use does not have to be associated with the choice of limiter. Just try a few different types.
Safe allround dither is POW.
I am cautious about using high noise shaping algorithms in dither, they seem logically like a superior option but after quite a few tests i feel the more noise shaping applied seems to smear the audio.
I think you should set up you mastering chain what ever way you wish and insert the dither last. Set it at 16 bits and your done.
As far as which dither, if you have a decent set of speakers i would render the file or audition all your dithering options as they will all sound different.
Its up to you then to choose which 1 will be suited to the current song.
The dither you use does not have to be associated with the choice of limiter. Just try a few different types.
Safe allround dither is POW.
I am cautious about using high noise shaping algorithms in dither, they seem logically like a superior option but after quite a few tests i feel the more noise shaping applied seems to smear the audio.
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- KVRian
- 1219 posts since 12 Aug, 2002
Since you have Sound Forge, I would give the Highpass Triangular algo with the Equal Loudness contour shaping a go, I am really impressed with this dither. The trouble with these dithering algos is that they can colour the sound of your track to one degree or another. To my ears the Sound Forge dither does an extremely good job of staying out of the way whilst reducing the word length. I rather like it's general character, and it lends a nice sense of perceived depth without intruding on the track's tonal shape.
Apogee's UV22 is a nice all rounder... I like this one on heavy rock tracks or anything that has a slight "edginess" to the sound. I'm with Doug as far as noise shaping goes. The most intrusive dither algos seem to have the most intense shaping. I'm no fan of Waves IDR. Of the POWer dithers, I like the R1 shape the best for most things. The R2 and R3 shapes add colouring that I don't particularily care to have imparted to a track that is sounding the way I want to begin with.
As in all things musical, its a matter of taste. One man's wine is another man's poison.
Apogee's UV22 is a nice all rounder... I like this one on heavy rock tracks or anything that has a slight "edginess" to the sound. I'm with Doug as far as noise shaping goes. The most intrusive dither algos seem to have the most intense shaping. I'm no fan of Waves IDR. Of the POWer dithers, I like the R1 shape the best for most things. The R2 and R3 shapes add colouring that I don't particularily care to have imparted to a track that is sounding the way I want to begin with.
As in all things musical, its a matter of taste. One man's wine is another man's poison.
To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders - Lao Tzu
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 503 posts since 28 Mar, 2005 from Annapolis, MD
I thank the both of you for your feedback.
I'm glad to see that I'll be able to make use of Sound Forge in this way, and I'll try your recommendations. I really have not used this program that much yet because I've done much of my editing within Ableton Live. Sound Forge 8 has some added features that I'll have to try out more.
I'm still confused about how people are using the dither with the mini-me. Would I be able to use the dither on the mini-me for mastering in any way? The Mini-Me has a USB connection, XLR and 1/4 TRS inputs and AES, digital toslink and 1/8" out. If you cannot use the dither for mastering, I am wondering why it is useful at all.
I'm glad to see that I'll be able to make use of Sound Forge in this way, and I'll try your recommendations. I really have not used this program that much yet because I've done much of my editing within Ableton Live. Sound Forge 8 has some added features that I'll have to try out more.
I'm still confused about how people are using the dither with the mini-me. Would I be able to use the dither on the mini-me for mastering in any way? The Mini-Me has a USB connection, XLR and 1/4 TRS inputs and AES, digital toslink and 1/8" out. If you cannot use the dither for mastering, I am wondering why it is useful at all.
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- KVRian
- 1219 posts since 12 Aug, 2002
feyshay,feyshay wrote:I'm still confused about how people are using the dither with the mini-me. Would I be able to use the dither on the mini-me for mastering in any way? The Mini-Me has a USB connection, XLR and 1/4 TRS inputs and AES, digital toslink and 1/8" out. If you cannot use the dither for mastering, I am wondering why it is useful at all.
Any time you choose the 16/20bit outputs on this box the UV22 dither will be applied. The unit should also apply UV22 to the USB output if your software is set to work in 16bit but the Mini-Me itself is configured to work at 24bits of resolution.
If you want to stay in your DAW the only way to take advantage of the Mini-Me dithering would be to loop your audio out and then back in. If you have a soundcard with some digital IO options I suppose you could do this, though personally I find no disadvantage to using the Sound Forge dither with the options I mentioned. UV22 *is* a good dither, but it was released in '93 and dithering has come along since then...SoFo's Highpass Triangular algo with the Equal Loudness contour shaping being a good example. You have it...I'd use it.
Oh, one bit of advice regarding USB and audio quality. Some folks use USB hubs in an audio environment...don't do that, plug any USB audio interface directly into the computer. USB can be dodgy with regards to jitter, this gets much more critical when a hub is used. Your clock source can be very good, but that USB connection is your bottleneck.
Last edited by kilroy on Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders - Lao Tzu
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 503 posts since 28 Mar, 2005 from Annapolis, MD
Thanks a lot for further clarification. My next step (down the road) will be to get some better equipment for mastering--a CD burner and a mastering type compressor (something like the Avalon 747).