KVR Audio

DuX · Post by **DuX** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:01 am

I've just heard the new Depeche Mode CD "Playing The Angel" and like it. Yea, it's quite all right, the songs are very good, sounds too... however... production or mastering is one of the worst I've ever heard

. This production or mastering is plain crime against music. It is so distorted I can't listen to it for more than once. I could do better mastering on my PC speakers, definitely. Just listen to it... it's disgusting and very distorted. You don't need golden ears to hear that. That's a great pitty because the songs sound really quite good, better than last few CD-s and if they make it available in two versions - one for the def people and one for those who actually enjoy good sound and music, I'd instantly buy the latter one.

What do you think?

Cheers!

Reverse Engineer · Post by **Reverse Engineer** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:03 am

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/ind ... opic=27691 You may like to read this.

DuX · Post by **DuX** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:45 am

Yep, I know I'm not the only one who's not buying new CD's simply because they sound horrible. Maybe RIAA should be looking somewhere else for the reason people aren't buying CD's I wonder? I used to buy piles of CD's throughout 80's and 90's... and now, just a few CD's a year, possibly not squashed ones if I get lucky, and believe it or not-there are such CD's, mostly alternative artists, though. I cannot get over the fact that these days, when we have the possibility of listening to such high quality audio at even 192/24, there's just no use... My best sounding Depeche Mode CD's are still those from the early 90's, even late 80's...

Gosh it makes me sad.

Especially now when I hear these new songs, they're really something after a long while, to me at least.

Reverse Engineer · Post by **Reverse Engineer** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:02 am

I'm not really sure where i am on this.

I still buy cd's quite regularly (on avg about 20-30 a year...sometimes more depending on where i go. I buy a lot of second hand cd's too.)

My hi-fi (which is ancient) may just be quite sympathetic to what's coming out nowadays and i don't notice it so much or i've been lucky and not bought anything that's "too" badly mastered. Although, i did think Beta Band - Heroes to Zeros and Radiohead - Hail to the Thief were pretty crappy sounding from a dynamics perspective.

DuX · Post by **DuX** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:19 am

Man, you don't need a high-end Hi-Fi system to hear this nastyness

. I have a really hi-end system with JBL monitors and blah blah... but even listening to this on the PC speakers tells a lot, and I have those, too

. I want this loudness war to stop already, it's been too long we've been listening to distortion only. The strange thing is - I actually like distortion and noisy electronic stuff

, but this is different...

Regarding buying CD's, I too am buying mostly second hand these days - you can find some really good masterpieces from 80's and 90's to listen to

!

Reverse Engineer · Post by **Reverse Engineer** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:26 am

DuX wrote:you can find some really good masterpieces from 80's and 90's to listen to !

You're not kidding. I've found myself some true gems for literally pennies (i bought an elliott smith promo of his figure 8 album for 50p / $0.75 and that wasn't even second hand, that was the shop itself that put that out for sale...the naughty buggers

) And HMV were seeling off the talking heads back catalogue for an average price of £3.00 each......and people still buy from itunes et al?

what retards.

DuX · Post by **DuX** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:52 am

Same here... most of the best CD's I've bought last 5 years are second hand. Bought them for pennies and they're worth every penny three-fold, at least

. I can't understand i-tunes people either. Are they too lasy to walk down to a CD shop and dig through those CD's a bit? I enjoy doing that!

I can stay in a CD shop for literally hours!

And, of course, I always find a CD or two from an unknown artist I like.

Cheers!

Bradster · Post by **Bradster** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:55 am

Man, this is getting out of hand. I bought "Playing The Angel" hours after it went on sale, but in spite of what may be good material I couldn't listen to more than a couple of tracks. Just try looking at the waveform in AA or SF and you'll get a perfect box. No dynamic range to hear or see. Thank the Goddess I only paid $9.99.

This was even worse than Vapor Trails (another band whose stuff I buy on day one), which Rip Rowan well, "rips" on here quite thoroughly.

I’m with DuX, that DM's best sounding stuff was Music For The Masses and Violator –- and probably the pinnacle of their career. Violator actually seems a bit mellower than Music, even though it came 2 years later.

And Rush of all artists should know better. What other band has such a high percentage of musicians as a fan base? I can remember 1981 when Moving Pictures was out and was commonly found in hi fi shops being used as demo material -- it sounded so damn good. (Hink – remember "Tech HiFi"?

).

Haven’t delved into the SACD/DVD Audio format yet. Please tell me there’s hope! I’d gladly buy into it if my favorite artists would once again become listenable.

Meanwhile, vote with your wallet...

pepelogu · Post by **pepelogu** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:05 am

I really don't think the mastering is only to blame, almost every single sound on the album was obviously run through a distortion unit. It's as if the producers said to themselves "everything sounds better distorted". It wouldn't be the first time those words being uttered but i personally don't agree. The single "Precious" is the only track that has a good balance between smooth and harsh tones and as such the only track on the album bearable to listen to more than once.

IMHO... remember...

DuX · Post by **DuX** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:13 am

Bradster: "Haven’t delved into the SACD/DVD Audio format yet. Please tell me there’s hope! I’d gladly buy into it if my favorite artists would once again become listenable."

I hope they [?] will make DVD-A listenable, too. Video DVD's are usually mastered at K-20, but I don't think DVD-A's are mastered like that, except classical and jazz music, and even they start pancaking their masters... I simply don't understand. The other night I tried to explain to my girlfriend this loudness concept and implications. I took Depeche Mode - "Never Let me down again" and pancaked it with L2 then matched it -6db with the original and she understood/heard the difference perfectly... well she IS a classical soprano singer

, but what I meant to say is that everybody should try listening to some good K-14 recording [all 80's and the beginning of 90's] and the squashed version of it, too, to get the [distorted] picture. She liked the "normal" version better almost instantly, just after a few A/B-ing.

FaX · Post by **FaX** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:16 am

pepelogu wrote:I really don't think the mastering is only to blame, almost every single sound on the album was obviously run through a distortion unit. It's as if the producers said to themselves "everything sounds better distorted". It wouldn't be the first time those words being uttered but i personally don't agree. The single "Precious" is the only track that has a good balance between smooth and harsh tones and as such the only track on the album bearable to listen to more than once.

IMHO... remember...

You should have purchased the limited edition 5.1 surround release with dvd extra's.
Like chalk and cheese listening too the standard release and the Dolby Surround version.
The 5.1 mastering is bang on , highly detailed with lots of clarity and detail.
I cannot listen too the standard release CD at all after getting it .

DuX · Post by **DuX** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:19 am

I too, somehow "feel", in this case at least, it is not just mastering to blame and that many of the sounds were processed through various limiters, distortions and compressors totally intentionally, but it doesn't sound very good. The combination of distorted sounds and distorted mastering, I mean. How come they didn't realise that?... maaan.

DuX · Post by **DuX** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:22 am

FaX wrote:
pepelogu wrote:I really don't think the mastering is only to blame, almost every single sound on the album was obviously run through a distortion unit. It's as if the producers said to themselves "everything sounds better distorted". It wouldn't be the first time those words being uttered but i personally don't agree. The single "Precious" is the only track that has a good balance between smooth and harsh tones and as such the only track on the album bearable to listen to more than once.

IMHO... remember...
You should have purchased the limited edition 5.1 surround release with dvd extra's.
Like chalk and cheese listening too the standard release and the Dolby Surround version.
The 5.1 mastering is bang on , highly detailed with lots of clarity and detail.
I cannot listen too the standard release CD at all after getting it .

ME BUY

!!!

Excellent news FaX, I've been contemplating something like that. Thanks for the great Great info!

Cheers!

glaucomys · Post by **glaucomys** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:27 am

Yea, that is bad... I mean bad in a way that I would fire the person that approved that mastering. I know from experience that these things need to be approved by more than one person. For this to slip by is simply an insult to the buyers.

This could be a symptom of the decay of giving a $h!t and the increased desire to make all the money you can with the least investment.

Wow is that bad... Nothing coming out of my monitors has sounded that bad ever, and that should be a compliment to the 'semi-pro' mastering that I have heard on several pieces here.

Thanks to WAVES (not saying this is the tool used), ever since L1 came out, people crush everything. Part of it is the engineers out there now a days, I know several that are 'succesful' and that is only because of the political game they played. When I listen to their work, I often wonder WTF?

I almost feel like I need a track from that disc just to remind me of how bad something can be made to sound! hehe... WOW

Too bad there is no way (er) to get an unmaster version of these songs to A/B

WOW!

DuX · Post by **DuX** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:59 am

I second all that glaucomys, oh yes. Things I've heard last few years got out of hand. I mean to stuff the whole song into 3db of dynamics? What's the point of buying a CD, then? Listening to an MP3 or a CD is the same thing - both sound like trash... Why buying all those "precision linear ultra high end" monitors, also? Why buying the "super high ultra XL" audio card? Yea, the the situation is sad. Hopefully DVD-A will put an end to that or we will start buying DVD versions? Maybe they want to put an end to CD's? I'm all for that if you ask me... that 44.1/16 format is a bit too old and a tad too LQ IMO.

Cheers!

Depeche Mode - Playing The Angel, production comments