Is it bad to constantly retune a guitar to different tunings

[darcyb62]

You can use different tunings on the same guitar?

Here I've been telling my wife I need another guitar for each tuning I want!

It sure makes it a lot easier.

[Amberience]

I really just don't want more than two guitars.

[Hink]

do strings stretch? (not nylon)

If you want to know if nylon stretches, go grab a pair of panty hose (don't do anything gross with them, though ).

dude no offense but you haven't a clue...I said not nylon for a reason....from Fender certification "strings do not stretch, and recover"...there's another word for strings that have stretched...broken.

If strings did stretch
1. Floyd Rose would be out of work
2. If you straightened strings out after removing them they would be longer when removing
3. Strings at different tunings would be thinner.

none of which hold true (get a micrometer and check your gauges)

Now seeing how you think your pantyhose joke is funny, please get a rubber band, stretch that rubber band. What's the first thing you notice besides length? It gets thinner, however when you release the tension it goes back to it's original shape. That's called elasticity, there's a reason why we call rubber bands elastics and there's a reason elastics are made from rubber and not steel (BTW strings are not steel, most are nickle which is far harder then steel and plays an important role in this discussion).

If you stretch string it would create a thin spot, however nickle has very little elasticity so it will not return to it's original shape or size. Furthermore it will cause a fatal flaw in the string and the string will break under pressure. As strings are designed to handle the tension at their normal size at a smaller diameter they will snap fast. In fact I don't know a guitarist who this hasn't happened to.

Ever bend a string to it's limits and as you are releasing the bend it snaps instead while you're bending it to the limit? The reason is above, it doesn't take much tension to snap a weakened string less then the normal tension on the string...as soon as you create that weak spot it will not return and it snaps...basic stuff really, learned in my first of 4 years studying to be a machinist/tool and die maker.

Now I said that the hardness of the material plays an important role here. Go try and stretch a piece of glass. Glass is very hard, so hard in fact that only diamonds can cut it. One physical property of hard materials is they are more brittle then softer materials. Every alloy, metal or material has an elasticity rating and a hardness rating and the harder they are the lower the elasticity period.

So please do not laugh at me, poke fun at me, I actually know what I'm talking about...

[Amberience]

Actually when I made this thread, I mainly figured that you'd give good advice Hink. You seem to know your shit, plus you like gnomes and have a name that rhymes with sink.

[Hink]

I really just don't want more than two guitars.

I'm that way to tbh I only want one of each so to speak, Though I do have more then one guitar with a whammy, none that are assembled yet (BTW the scalloping job I'm working on is going well)...but I form a bond with a guitar, my Warmoth that I built is a hardtail strat...it's whole purpose was for alternate tunings. When I built it I used the whammy a lot, not much now though.

I know people may not beleive this but I started with alternate tunings in 98, not from jump street (started playing in 71). My half brother started with alternate tunings way before me. So everyone that is against alternate tunings, not only have I heard the same arguments I ahve used them...and was wqrong then.

In 98 I designed a clip because I was giving in (after playing his transperformance quite a bit). I needed to make one of my guitars with a floyd rose into a hardtail when I wanted it to be. The benefit was I came up with a tool that allows you to change strings and tune just about as quickly on a rose as you can with a fixed bridge.



Like I say I designed it for locking the bridge, I discovered it's hidden benefit.

But I haven't even been using alternate tunings for 1/3 of the time I have been playing...however since getting the bug life rocks, it's changed my musical thinking, I'm no longer a pentatonic whore...so you asked the original question and still the answer stays the same...no, changing tunings will not effect your guitar in any way (besides of course making much more useful)

[Amberience]

Hehehe. Yeah, I'm pretty clear now that changing tunings wont f**k up my intonation.

A pentatonic whore? One who sticks to the dots you mean?

Pentatonics are useful, but they only sound good when given contrast to something else, throw in some accidentals and you've immediately got something that sounds a bit more tasty.

I've been playing in various different time signatures lately, trying to get away from 4/4 (although now it seems I need to get away from 10/4 !!)

Other than exploring it, I'm trying to learn songs.

[darcyb62]

I really just don't want more than two guitars.

One can never have two many guitars, although I do have my go-to guitars. I have found that each has found its role and each has been set up for that role. Mainly through pickups, choice of strings and string height (I've been getting into some slide lately and 9's and a very low action don't work all that well with a slide).

[james0tucson]

That was totally random but sheesh it's late and I'm still at work.

There's a violin luthier in my neighborhood, old
Jewish guy named Zola, who will carve a bone bridge saddle or nut for $20. Since he mainly does violins, and since he's been doing it since Stradavarius was in diapers, I trust him

[Hink]

I really just don't want more than two guitars.

One can never have two many guitars, although I do have my go-to guitars. I have found that each has found its role and each has been set up for that role. Mainly through pickups, choice of strings and string height (I've been getting into some slide lately and 9's and a very low action don't work all that well with a slide).

neither does standard tuning... (assuming you're using standard tuning)

open G...DGDGBD
open A...EAEAC#E
open E...EBEG#BE

all of those work very nice with slide...

[Markleford]

What are you playing at, Hink? Of course strings stretch! That's what tuning does, after all.

And that's not to say that it's perceptible to the naked eye, and not that it isn't recoverable. But tension on a string means that force is being placed upon it to change its physical dimensions.

Tuning does change the length of the string temporarily. That's why the string is wrapped around a post. The same string at low and high tension will have the same constant length of vibrational node, yet the string will travel farther rotationally around the post. If you measure the length of the node plus that of the string around the post, you will find that it has increased.

You could string a guitar with all of the same gauge of string. The lowest string would need enough tension to allow it to vibrate in a periodic node relatively unaffected by gravitational forces (aka "not floppy" ). Once this was established, each higher string would need to be tuned to an increasingly higher tension to maintain pitch/interval relationships. If you did this, starting with equal length strings attaching to equidistant pegs, you'd find that the higher pitched strings would have more string wrapped around the peg.

Aside: Of course, the tension required to obtain high pitches might overwhelm the material strength of the string itself, causing it to break. This is why we use different string gauges for different string pitches. Additionally, an ideal setup would have relatively equal string tensions across all strings in order to reduce any tortion/twisting issues along the longitudinal axis that could cause neck warping (which can be somewhat compensated by a truss rod, particularly with a double-truss in instruments like a 12-string guitar or multi-string basses).

And strings have to grow thinner to achieve higher pitch when bending. When you do a string bend on guitar, moving your finger parallel to the frets, you're actually increasing the vibrational node length (from fret to bridge: originally perpendicular is now at an angle), which should result in a *decrease* in pitch. But why doesn't the pitch go down? Because the string is also growing thinner due to the tension.

Alternately, if the strings are low enough tension, you can apply vibrato by pulling the string parallel along the neck. This is also stretching the string.

So where are our two explanations crossing each other? They both sound reasonable. And while I have no materials manufacturing experience, I'd like to think that my university physics courses weren't all for naught.

- m

[darcyb62]

neither does standard tuning... (assuming you're using standard tuning)

Mainly open g and open e. But I've heard Warren Haynes used predominatly standard tuning for most of his stuff. I do like the slide though...

[Hink]

Markleford strings do not stretch my friend you can say it all you want but there is a difference between elasticity and tensile strength. The tesile strength is the point that the string would start be corrupt and snap. The higher tensile strength means you can tighten it to tune it, but it's quite obvious that if you followed your logic that streching is tuning, you are wrong, it's tension...tension does not equal stretch. (stretching reduces tension)

Most micrometers can measure down .0001", I did it many times when fully tuned or out of the package the strings are the same size...please get a micrometer and try it. If it stretches it will be more then .0001...even at that small an increase the point would be moot, if the mic can't measure it then either I'm right and it's less the .0001 (1/10,000 of an inch, most human hairs are between 3/1000 - 5/1000)

It's just a fact, when a string exceeds it's tensile strength it starts to stretch, has a high threshold as far as tensile strength, but being as hard as it it will snap quickly once it gets there...just like stretching glass.

I can't believe this is such a difficult thing to understand, but it is so common it's unbelievable. I have proved it with a micrometer many, many times since starting in machine shop in 74...but the majority of guitar players still believe they can stretch strings.

Like I said if it did Sperzels wouldn't work, the concept behind a Floyd Rose wouldn't work right. Many people believe that why a guitar goes out of tune from a whammy is because the strings stretch, but that is false (and why sperzels work). The detuning occurs from the strings getting loose on the machine heads then reseating. Just as many believe that new strings don't stay in tune because the are stretching, again that is false. The strings are adjusting to the machine heads and settling. In fact I know one guy who has kept his first guitar as a string stretcher, proved it to him with a mic, but he doesn't care....he also breaks more strings then anyone I know...

[Hink]

You could string a guitar with all of the same gauge of string. The lowest string would need enough tension to allow it to vibrate in a periodic node relatively unaffected by gravitational forces (aka "not floppy" ). Once this was established, each higher string would need to be tuned to an increasingly higher tension to maintain pitch/interval relationships.

This is completely correct but you are not applying it correctly...like I said tension does not equal stretch, tension effects how the string vibrates and how much room it has to vibrate if it has a lot of room it takes longer to cycle so the the frequency is lower, if it has less room to vibrate the frequency of vibrations is faster and higher...thicker strings vibrate slower thinner strings vibrate quicker, so for high notes smaller strings mean less tension on the neck and thicker strings perform better at slacker tensions. The truth is stretch is just the wrong word, give have give depending on the tension...but that is not stretching...

[Karbon L. Forms]

http://www-group.slac.stanford.edu/met/ ... Bowd04.pdf

heavy shit! i think they think wires stretch. not sure! too heavy for me.

don't suppose accelerators are relevant. sorry.

[ew]

Hink is right here


Strings DON'T stretch. When people talk about stretching a new set of strings, they actually aren't stretching them; they're just removing the slack at the tuners, between the tuners and the nut, and between the bridge saddles and where the string terminates.

ew