Is it bad to constantly retune a guitar to different tunings

[Markleford]

The truth is stretch is just the wrong word

That's likely the crux of the argument. So what term would you apply to the following?

Back to the example of Sperzel tuners, you thread the string through the bridge, over the nut, and into the peg. Then you lock it down and clip off the remaining string. At that point you have a fixed string length.

However, the string is not at the desired tension yet. So you twist the tuner and it wraps around the peg. You can see the physical distance traveled by the string around the peg, at a different location than initially set.

So isn't this in some manner a "stretching" of the string? The higher you proceed to tune the string, the more it wraps around the tuner, and thus the longer it is for as long as the tension is maintained.

- m

[Karbon L. Forms]

maybe the guitar neck compresses a bit?

[Amberience]

So isn't this in some manner a "stretching" of the string? The higher you proceed to tune the string, the more it wraps around the tuner, and thus the longer it is for as long as the tension is maintained.

- m

No.

[Markleford]

Then what accounts for the new length? There is rotational travel that is apparent. Keep in mind, I'm not saying that it *stays* that way.

- m

[Stupid American Pig]

well if it stretched it would never increase in pitch, tension can only be applied if the string more or less stays the same length. I think that there is *some* degree of stretch to the string, but it is very minimal, and to really stretch a string you will break it.

[Amberience]

Can you stretch a wedding ring?

[Stupid American Pig]

naw but my finger is trying...

[Karbon L. Forms]

so if they don't stretch then no part of it moves (as it's anchored at one end) so why do we lubricate the nut and how come I can feel the string move as I tune up from just tensioned?

if they didnt stretch you'd just take your string, clamp it at both ends of your guitar and bang your in tune!

nonsense IMHO

[Hink]

Then what accounts for the new length? There is rotational travel that is apparent. Keep in mind, I'm not saying that it *stays* that way.

- m

across the street from me are power and phone lines between two poles the spreaders separate 5 groups of wire that are at a minimum 1" thick each...we have many squirrels (5 came out of one tree the other day...party...) so one walks across the cables which are fairly tense (the don't bow much at all), his little body bends the wires down....surely his 1 -2 lbs isn't stretching 4-5" of stranded copper wire. That is applying a different force then pulling on the wire to stretch it.

Now go up to radio shack and get some thin solder, replace your low e string and see what happens. You will keep breaking it because it will just keep stretching and snapping due to being so soft and a low tensile strength. I assume most would soon think, "gee if it would stop stretching so quick I might be able to tune it". But it still has a low tensile strength so instead of stretching and breaking, it just snaps...so you get hard metal, with lower elasticity (after all if the elasticity is still high you'll still end up breaking the strings, you'll still never get it in tune...it will just take longer)...so you get high tensile strength to tighten the tension to where you need it with low elasticity so it holds the tune....so stretching is bad.

So the terms are and always have been tension and adjusting tension (or tightening). Our furry little friend is in a position to apply more force to exploit any "looseness" or lack of tension in the cable. We as guitar players are able to apply the same kind of force on the strings. If you don't believe me wrap a string around both your hands to stretch it It will hurt a lot more then bending. It would be impossible to remove all the tension in a string without breaking it,therefore though it might seem very taught...there's always room for more...

BTW, it is quite a valid point that the neck will give before a string stretches, even with a truss rod.

[Amberience]

This has gone to semantics I think. Some are saying tension is the same as stretch, some are saying it's not.

The dictionary.com definitions would support that increasing the tension can be desribed as stretching.

[Hink]

so if they don't stretch then no part of it moves (as it's anchored at one end) so why do we lubricate the nut and how come I can feel the string move as I tune up from just tensioned?

if they didnt stretch you'd just take your string, clamp it at both ends of your guitar and bang your in tune!

nonsense IMHO

see above, you leave out one thing tension... I only lubricate a nut (with graphite) when a buzz is present...

[Hink]

This has gone to semantics I think. Some are saying tension is the same as stretch, some are saying it's not.

The dictionary.com definitions would support that increasing the tension can be desribed as stretching.

mechanically speaking that can't be, when something stetches it removes tension, it slackens...but the point is when strings reaches that point of stretch it snaps, if it kept stretching i would never stay in tune...it's how they are designed...

[Hink]

S: (n) stretching (act of expanding by lengthening or widening)

Definitions of stretch on the Web:

occupy a large, elongated area; "The park stretched beneath the train line"
extend one's limbs or muscles, or the entire body; "Stretch your legs!"; "Extend your right arm above your head"
unfold: extend or stretch out to a greater or the full length; "Unfold the newspaper"; "stretch out that piece of cloth"; "extend the TV antenna"
become longer by being stretched and pulled; "The fabric stretches"
a large and unbroken expanse or distance; "a stretch of highway"; "a stretch of clear water"
elongate: make long or longer by pulling and stretching; "stretch the fabric"
reach: the act of physically reaching or thrusting out
lie down comfortably; "To enjoy the picnic, we stretched out on the grass"
a straightaway section of a racetrack
pull in opposite directions; "During the Inquisition, the torturers would stretch their victims on a rack"
exercise designed to extend the limbs and muscles to their full extent
extend the scope or meaning of; often unduly; "Stretch the limits"; "stretch my patience"; "stretch the imagination"
extension to or beyond the ordinary limit; "running at full stretch"; "by no stretch of the imagination"; "beyond any stretch of his understanding"
adulterate: corrupt, debase, or make impure by adding a foreign or inferior substance; often by replacing valuable ingredients with inferior ones; "adulterate liquor"
an unbroken period of time during which you do something; "there were stretches of boredom"; "he did a stretch in the federal penitentiary"
stretch(a): having an elongated seating area; "a stretch limousine"
extend: increase in quantity or bulk by adding a cheaper substance; "stretch the soup by adding some more cream"; "extend the casserole with a little rice"
easily stretched; "stretch hosiery"
the capacity for being stretched
extend one's body or limbs; "Let's stretch for a minute--we've been sitting here for over 3 hours

...

[Stupid American Pig]

if by stretching you mean a string gets longer when you tension it that is mostly false. Im sure that it does lengthen slightly as you apply tension, but eventually stops getting longer so that tension can increase. or a string gets longer at a slower rate than tension is applied by the tuner. I would imagine a string either goes out of tune because the tuner moves, or because the string lengthens or "stretches" slightly.

if by stretching you mean increased tension then yes, a string does "stretch".

Hink has the right idea here, a string has to keep its length more or less or it would never be able to tune. I had a guitar with a broken neck once, and as I tightened the tuner, the neck would move away from the guitar further. since the string was staying the same length it was making the guitar shorter as tension was applied. The was only a set amount of tension that the neck could hold before flexing, so the strings would never tune up.

[Markleford]

mechanically speaking that can't be, when something stetches it removes tension, it slackens...

Okay, *that* I can certainly agree with. As I said, I didn't view this stretching as a permanent state, which would equate to "tensioning" in your terminology.

But speaking of furry friends, when one of my cats "stretches", it doesn't stay that way!

- m