are we ripe for the picking?

[Hink]

HI

If the demo works fine - what's the problem?

Assuming you get a fully featured and supported working version.

Flipper.

let me ask some questions...first I think vurt is right, but I have to say out 70,000 or whatever the total count of members there are, there is certainly enough foolish people here to make a killing. But I agree with vurt that being foolish is your own fault..so am I being foolish to ask a such a question?...With people changing their names, trolls, warez users here already...I think to err on the side of caution is wise.

Ebay, are people saying that the most obvious place to pull a con is the best place? Personally I would think the opposite, ebay claims to be quite active in defending against cons. KVR is complacent...who makes a better target?

Demos, what if there are no demos? Many products use mp3s for demos, no? What if they come up with a few free synths or modify someone elses, gains our confidence (that's what con is short for) then makes big promises on a new synth...here are the mp3 demos..do we know they are for real?

This came up because of a disscussion with a friend who does not make music (and quite a bit my elder). I was telling him about the group sales and he was quite intrigued. He thought it to be very cool, then he asked what's to stop someone from ripping everyone off? So that's what I'm asking, besides our own common sense (and face it, not everyone here has common sense) what's to stop that from happening.

Please bear in mind I am not trying to stir up trouble, I'm just trying to determine if we are vunerable and if we are should we take steps to protect ourselves?

[vurt]

yeah meffy, o forums its not the same as dealing face to face with one guy and being able to twist and turn into his pocket,on forums in general you will have people who are in the know about most of these things ie devs who beleive it or not people see each other occassionally,plus then they have testers and so on so too many people to expect the scam to see the light of day. then theres the other people, meffy inferred i was wise to the world, no im just paranoid and there are many like me and then there are the wise ones of course.

i can see it being tried and sadly one or two people may send in the cash before someone starts the "kerfuffle" but i suppose this thread should act at least as some sort of warning,if something looks to good to be true check it out thouroughly before you hand over card details or even a paypal payment.

[vurt]

But I agree with vurt that being foolish is your own fault..so am I being foolish to ask a such a question?...

two totally different questions

in asking the question you're raising awareness of one possible situation.
it could happen and your thread with these few opinions may have made new member catflap think before he signed up for that new superdupersintysize!!! group buy

it may never happen and you may die feeling you wasted a good thread,but i wouldnt worry about it

and your a fool for many other reasons but we can add this one if you want

[Hink]

but i suppose this thread should act at least as some sort of warning,if something looks to good to be true check it out thouroughly before you hand over card details or even a paypal payment.

thanx vurt... I have this thing about becoming to complacent, it's never good when you do...that's why I asked the question...

[Amberience]

Thanks for giving people the idea Hink. Now we really do have to watch out for the dodgy group-buys.

[Hink]

Thanks for giving people the idea Hink. Now we really do have to watch out for the dodgy group-buys.

I considered that, I really did and have been thinking this for a while. Actually since I took my trip to Maine (mid sept) as it was there this conversation took place. But it also says someone is watching...

[original flipper]

HI

Who hasn't been ripped off before ... hell: who hasn't lost a friend over money?

In the great scheme of thing's everyone would loose given your example - but if people recieved a re-engineered version of a dev's plug then I don't imagine it would be put in the recycle bin ... by many.

I don't think it makes you a fool if you do get ripped off either - I was second's away from giving over vital info to a bogus E-Mail fraudster a few years ago, how about the lady that phoned up her bank saying she could not get her credit card into the floppy drive - true story ... so I am told.

Hopefully experienced people might jump on the fraudster - before damage get's done.

Other's might simply say - why worry about such stuff?

Flipper.

[Hink]

Other's might simply say - why worry about such stuff?

why worry about getting conned......sorry I will never be that complacent.

@vurt...are you saying you're not a fool

I can hear the conversation now..."damn fool set his whole face on fire smoking a bone, once his beard went up in flames there wasn't anything he could do but shove his face in the toilet"

[Meffy]

Remember a while back there was talk of a possible Max/MSP group buy? (It didn't work out.) There were a LOT of savvy potential buyers asking about exact details of the financial and fulfillment arrangements. :-) That's an example of smart group action. Not all groups are as smart but this was what came to mind.

But Hink, it's good to ask these questions and get people to think about it. That's where smarts come from -- that and sometimes having been ripped off before.

[Amberience]

Yeah, I tried to help initiate that group buy Mef, but the Cycling people said they couldn't do it due to distribution clauses.

So then we had the idea of forming a "company" that could take advantage of the bundle-buying option that the Cycling people have.

But no one was willing to invest.

[Meffy]

Well, in case nobody said it then, thanks for making the effort. I might or might not have joined but it was a battle well fought.

[Hink]

btw people please bear in min d, when it comes to coding, cracking, hacking...I haven't a clue..I have no idea how to code nor do I know what it takes, I don't know if there's a way to "watermark" coding...so that is why I ask...the general feeling seems to be that there are enough intelligent people here to not be able to pull it off...I have to rely on people I trust for such answers...like if you brought your car to get fixed and you had no clue about mechanics, you need a mechanic you can trust.

While I will admit that I have seen many people here I don't trust, there are very few that I consider part of the community are on that list, none of which have replied here Off the top of my head I can think of three names that I question their honesty, in my apartment complex I can think of more. So that says a lot.

One apartment on my floor (of 8 apartments) has crackheads, cabs coming here 5-10 times a day (this weekend will be wild, first of the month)....I am so anal about my door being open, I dont want them knowing what I have here...

[Ildon]

It's for this reason that I don't do group buys. Rather pay the whole price than save some money and end up getting ripped off.

I still think eBay would be a better place to scam people, but that's just me.

Vurt's absolutely right. "Best way to get out of a bad situation is to not get in one at all."

[rogerperrin]

20,000 people in Africa die every day, there is war all over the world, the planet is heating up faster than ever before in recorded history and to devistating effect.

This problem that could happen, isn't really a problem at all is it.

I love this type of counter argument/attack. I've heard it used very successfully by the talking heads on the spin shows lately. It is used as a putdown usually by people who are defending a position that they know is wrong, and who have no rebuttal. So they resort to this type of rhetorical tactic which basically says that if you cannot consider any issues at this moment other than the petty issue you are raising here, then you are to be considered insignificant from here on in this discussion.

This is a very cynical and insulting tactic that Equilibrium has used and I will respond by saying: "Hey Eq, with all of the problems in the world, what are you doing sitting on your ass reading about computer music? Quit being an insignificant, insulting troll, and get your butt on over to some 3rd world country and start being a real man for once in your puny life!!"

Hink was just starting a topic like any other here at KVR, Man. So carry on now, Mates.

[Improv]

I'm not arguing or stating anything, I'm asking how secure we are from such a con....the reason I say group buy is because they get a large lump sum from all those who are part of the buy. I'm concerned instead of selling us a product they developed they sell us a modified cracked version. I really don't think it's paranoia...but there are so many scams out there that I am careful who I do business with offline...

One safeguard is that this is only a small market, scammers would probably want a huge general market-more potential for making $$$