James Blunt

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munchkin wrote: I'm not talking about the preachy holier than thou ethics promoted by Crass etc. I'm talking about the subversive mix of sex and politics of the Sex Pistols that changed the UK forever.
Well, the major difference IMO, is The Sex Pistols did it mostly because Malcom knew it would shock people and sell records, while Crass for the most part, actually meant it. They may have been elitist snobs, but their "anarchy" for the UK was of a variety much more dangerous to the system than the childish "let's go smash things up" anarchy that most bands of the time promoted.
I disagree with alot of their politics, but sometimes Crass does hit the nail on the head:

"We look for alternatives,
But the enormous power of the media makes it so difficult
To establish foundations. Their lies and distortions are so extreme
That everything becomes poisoned and corrupted.
We can become media personalities, but it is always on their terms.
We're tired of living up to other people's expectations when our own are so much higher.
Intelligence seems so easily dismissed when it doesn't conform to mainstream values.
Lennon said "They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool",
He was right. Social intelligence merely requires agreement and compromise.

The boundaries are becoming narrower as the State becomes more paranoid.
Under authoritarian rule, conformity becomes the only security.
Fear is a powerful weapon against human development.
Cowering in our temples of self there's little chance of change;
The State is aware of that. The bomb serves many functions.
If fear of the omnipotent God is no more,
The nuclear Father will govern with his shepherd's crook,
Drawing his flock closer to the valley of the shadow of death.

Those of us who stand out against the status quo
Do so against all odds.
We cling so closely together
Because we have little other than ourselves.
Critics say that it's just punk rock or that we're just naive anarchists.
They hope to discredit us with their labels and definitions.
Throughout history societies have condemned those who are later celebrated as heroes,
In so many bourgeois homes Van Gogh's sunflowers radiate from the walls,
Yet he lived in utter misery, condemned by those very same people.
Why is it that the kind and gentle are subjected to violence and riducule?
How is it that the small and mealy-minded have gained so much power?
What perversion has taken place that we are governed by fools?

We've had problems from self-appointed Gods from Bishops to MPs.
They've tried to ban our records saying that we're a threat to decent society.
f**k them. I hope we are.
What kind of depraved idiot thinks they can silence others by denying them their voice?
For f**ks sake, who are these lobotomists?
As if walls only had one side.
Whispered intimacies might not get through,
But cries of anguish know no barriers.
But how long do we shout for?
Denied the airwaves, we trust in the wind to carry what we say.
But sometimes we've found ourselves shouting into the wind
When we should have been confiding in each other.
It seems so absurd that we are denied the chance of ever being truly free.
The terrible inequalities of the peoples of this earth
Make freedom at best a dream, at worst an insulting privilege.
What space is there for self-expression and personal development
When over half the world's population is starving?
There are so many things that might have been done,
But rooted on this spot in the desire to find solution,
There's little to see and feel but the sighing and dying of our world.
But for suffering we might have been a part of it rather than apart from it."

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munchkin wrote:Punk wasn't just about the music or the design or the politics or the attitude
It was all about that !! :)

munchkin wrote:Anyone who lived in 76/77 will remember how dire popular music had become. Supergroups with huge articulated lorries circumnavigating the globe.
And now they are revered like the gods they perpetuated to be ! :D
munchkin wrote:...while the world sunk into recession and unemployment soared.
Indeed.
munchkin wrote:The Sex Pistols burnt a trail that others followed.
This is where I have to disagree strongly. The Sex Pistols did not blaze any trails. They were the Punk equivalent of Take That. A manufactured band created to cash in on the latest craze. McLaren used to boast how he had found the next Bay City Rollers. That quote alone clearly shows the reasoning behind their creation. Punk had been "underground" for some while. As you rightly say, people like Bowie, Warhol & the Velvet Underground (infact the whole Factory movement), Iggy Pop, MC5 et al, had been influencing a sub culture in the US & UK. Punk grew in the art colleges, amongst the educated and disillusioned and like any other popular sub culture, it was hijacked and exploited (no pun intended) for commercial gain.

munchkin wrote:I can't explain how incredibly different they sounded and appeared to everything else at the time. They took the genderbending freakiness of Bowie and mixed it with street politics. It was genius! If only young people today had even half the wit to achieve anything like it.
You got that right. It was a great time to be alive :)
munchkin wrote:Can you imagine any US musicians today releasing a song attacking the US national anthem and everything the establishment stands for and then holding an alternative celebration mocking the establishment? Never in a millions years. They'd be too scared.
And ain't it a shame. If ever an establishment need bringing down, it's that one.
munchkin wrote:The Sex Pistols did this and more.

I'm not talking about the preachy holier than thou ethics promoted by Crass etc. I'm talking about the subversive mix of sex and politics of the Sex Pistols that changed the UK forever.
IMHO, The Pistols merely pandered to the cheaper, tabloid expectations of Punk. Crass were more about the art and political punk foundations.
munchkin wrote:Without Bowie there would be no punk. Without punk there would be no Joy Division, The Smiths etc. Subversion is what makes pop great.
Agreed
munchkin wrote:Blunt and co perpetuate the status quo.
I hear Status Quo are getting on just fine without him !! LOL ;) ;)

May I recommend a really good book on Punk. It's a big, hardback "coffee table" tome called simply "PUNK.", by Stephen Colegrave & Chris Sullivan, published by Cassel & Co (ISBN 0-304-35987-4). A hefty £35, but has been seen available for less in these discount book stores that seem to spring up everywhere.
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I think munchkin's citing the Sex Pistols as the figurehead of punk is justified - the acts with the widest exposure and impact are always going to have the largest direct effect on society and the music scene they are considered part of. Not through being better, but just through being better known.
Voidoid Surrealist wrote:their "anarchy" for the UK was of a variety much more dangerous to the system than the childish "let's go smash things up" anarchy that most bands of the time promoted.
Or rather of a variety that could of been much more dangerous if they'd had the same massive impact as the Pistols, for example. But they didn't, and it wasn't.

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James Blunt is not punk rock at all(he is suck rock). I have no idea how this thread segued to punk rock, and Im not going to read it to find out.

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yes, YOU LIE

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i think you're all just jealous... and the punk ethic is highly over-rated.. :wink:

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I think you're a prick. Now we're even.
My Youtube Channel - Wires Dream Disasters

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Stupid American Pig wrote:James Blunt is not punk rock at all(he is suck rock).
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Lovesign wrote:
Stupid American Pig wrote:James Blunt is not punk rock at all(he is suck rock).
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:lol: I suppose I deserved that.

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robenestobenz wrote:I think munchkin's citing the Sex Pistols as the figurehead of punk is justified - the acts with the widest exposure and impact are always going to have the largest direct effect on society and the music scene they are considered part of. Not through being better, but just through being better known.
Voidoid Surrealist wrote:their "anarchy" for the UK was of a variety much more dangerous to the system than the childish "let's go smash things up" anarchy that most bands of the time promoted.
Or rather of a variety that could of been much more dangerous if they'd had the same massive impact as the Pistols, for example. But they didn't, and it wasn't.
Sadly, ture on poth pints.

*edit* jesus tapdancing christ! I really need more coffee and a fire in the woodstove...I think the cold is having an effect on my typing :lol:

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The reason I cite the pistols is not because they were the most political (they were very political all the same) and not because they had more pins in there ears and crazy color in their hair but because they represented a turning point in music and the whole ethos of music.

I cite them in relation to Blunt because I think such a turning point needs to happen again. It won't be punk but I hope it'll be something as ground breaking.

This will show my age but at 15 I was off my tits on speed jumping around in latex at gigs with The Banshees, The Pistols, etc. It was incredible how isolated the movement was at the begining. I remember travelling home on a bus after a loooong night out with some mates while gents in bowler hats were travelling to work glaring at us. Bus conductors wouldn't let me on the bus half the time and getting bashed was a regular occurance.

I remember feeling scared and angry about society at the time. Life seemed so regulated and controlled. Punk was an exhilirating release from the prospect of some boring apprentiship and the 9to5 grind that my dad hated. Punk opened the door to experimentation in all areas. This must've been how the hippies (careful!) felt before they became the establishment (just like many of the punks eventually did.)

I suppose I believe that every young person should have the privilage of living through such exciting times in music and ideology as I did. Rather than buying the James Blunt album in Tesco's. That's why I rail against the injustice of it all! :oops:

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Lovesign wrote:This is where I have to disagree strongly. The Sex Pistols did not blaze any trails. They were the Punk equivalent of Take That. A manufactured band created to cash in on the latest craze. McLaren used to boast how he had found the next Bay City Rollers. That quote alone clearly shows the reasoning behind their creation. Punk had been "underground" for some while. As you rightly say, people like Bowie, Warhol & the Velvet Underground (infact the whole Factory movement), Iggy Pop, MC5 et al, had been influencing a sub culture in the US & UK. Punk grew in the art colleges, amongst the educated and disillusioned and like any other popular sub culture, it was hijacked and exploited (no pun intended) for commercial gain.
If only McLaren was that clever. You offer a view that is very much an analysis in hindsight. If you asked any punk at the time who MC5 were they wouldn't have known. US music was considered decrepid (sp) and boring at punks inception. Punk was very much a London scene that had isolated itself from the establishment and all that vile 'rock' music. That's why it was so startling and unique.

Despite their influence Bowie, Reed etc were part of the glam movement which was the antithesis of punk. Bowie was considered burnt out and boring by punk unlike a few years later when everyone at the Blitz applauded his arrival.

Comparing The Pistols to Take That is a bit silly really and not worth commenting on.

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Punk wasn't just about the music or the design or the politics or the attitude. It was a poisoned dagger into the heart of the music establishment at the time.

Anyone who lived in 76/77 will remember how dire popular music had become. Supergroups with huge articulated lorries circumnavigating the globe. Cape wearing monstrosities singing of wizards and fair maidens while the world sunk into recession and unemployment soared.
Hmmm.....


I remember punk being all about ingesting huge amounts of amphetamines and getting very drunk and bouncing up and down alot and crap fashion.

I remember most of the 80s, Goth, New Romantic etc being about smoking lots of weed, getting very drunk, shagging a bit more and fashion that you felt good in (at the time :hihi: ).

I remember the late 80s and 90s being about ingesting copious amounts of Ecstacy, Ketamine and Acid, getting a little less drunk, rather cool but generally soggy fashion, lots more shagging.

And really that's all most of any musical fad is to most people. Punk wasn't anything special apart from the few who lost their perspective at the time. There were plenty of musical/political genres that could be said to be far more important or potentially life-changing than punk. Alot of 60s movements were far more sincere and far more widespread. 50s rock'n'roll probably had a more life-changing effect than punk ever did - society was far more strictly controlled prior to that. At least punks already had the freedoms to dress badly and talk political rubbish.

Overall punk had the least attraction to me. The music was amateur mostly, not an awful lot of tune involved, but lots of shouting (which is why I don't like rap too). The drugs were OK, but the politics and the women were just plain ugly. :P

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kritikon wrote:The music was amateur mostly, not an awful lot of tune involved, but lots of shouting.
Oh dear...you sound like my dad. :-o :P

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Voidoid Surrealist wrote:
munchkin wrote: I'm not talking about the preachy holier than thou ethics promoted by Crass etc. I'm talking about the subversive mix of sex and politics of the Sex Pistols that changed the UK forever.
Well, the major difference IMO, is The Sex Pistols did it mostly because Malcom knew it would shock people and sell records, while Crass for the most part, actually meant it.
"the names Crass not Clash!"

and to those who dislike punk because of shouting and such, they called rock 'n roll "jungle music" and worse.... the whole "seen it, done it" attitude don't apply as well as you might think imo....what was "50's rock" rebelling against exactly? an economic upturn? good times and feelings? the US in the 70's was crappy economically, not just music-wise, i understand more so in GB, there was a proper rebellion of sorts.....and punk stuck now for almost 30 years, like it or not, and rap seems to have the legs as well....

i think people who don't like punk really don't like rock 'n roll period, the true idea of what "rocking out" is all about...embraced and enhanced by Neil Young...even Billy Joel wrote "it's still rock 'n roll to me", i mean c'mon....


rg
KVR: come for the music, stay for the polemics and grammar lessons...

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