James Blunt

[Bunnyboy]

Thats why i said that the "punk spirit" has been around for ever - i wasnt being cute, i actually meant it!!

If you think how heavy "hound dog" must've sounded to a typical mainstream audience in the late '50s. sheesh!!

[Bunnyboy]

and if you think of how james blunt compares to that...

[ross g]

Punk wasn't just about the music or the design or the politics or the attitude

It was all about that !!

Can you imagine any US musicians today releasing a song attacking the US national anthem and everything the establishment stands for and then holding an alternative celebration mocking the establishment? Never in a millions years. They'd be too scared.

And ain't it a shame. If ever an establishment need bringing down, it's that one.

The Sex Pistols did this and more.

I'm not talking about the preachy holier than thou ethics promoted by Crass etc. I'm talking about the subversive mix of sex and politics of the Sex Pistols that changed the UK forever.

IMHO, The Pistols merely pandered to the cheaper, tabloid expectations of Punk. Crass were more about the art and political punk foundations.

i'm sure a hundred bands and clusters of people in the US did as much or more (content wise), but no one will ever hear any of it...obviously the Pistols had Malcom, but the press was as instrumental with their success as anyone...they could never, would never, exist in the US...y'all underestimate the sheer difference in size, how spead out the seperate scenes in differnt areas are over here, how nearly impossible it is to get national recognition it is in the staes...Jimi had to go to England, i know several acts that have done well in England and Europe, completly unknown in the US...there is a lot less fear than y'all think, it's just the rebellious get swallowed up and are unknown...been plenty of things goin' on, Kanye West makes one statement and it's national news, how do you think an anti-american onslaught would go over? but those who would actually have the balls would never get through the record company doors or on tv/in mags, etc...

and i like Crass for their music, thank you...the message is there as well, and that's all fine...come to think of it, same for the Sex Pistlos, but i always like Pil more anyway....

(art wise, i went through bomb threats two seperate times over mere paintings hung in a private school, the will is there, everyone stuck to their guns, but ultimatly nothing changed....i guess the pistols didn't change anything either...)

[Amberience]

Fact is, NO one in recent times is saying it like they see it. They're either doing what someone else is telling them to, or they're doing something that they know will sell, disregarding any creative decisions they should make - fitting in, in other words.

The only act I can really think of who has said anything remotely interesting (read: truthful) in recent times is Gorillaz, and that was years ago when they recieved an award.

There isn't anyone in mainstream culture doing anything to balance things out anymore. Manson stopped doing it, Tool are busy expressing themselves (as opposed to expressing OURselves, humankind I mean) and there just are no political people in music anymore. They're either complete and utter corporate pussy bitches, or their artists who strive for introspection rathen than outrospection.

[Blank_Frank]

i guess the pistols didn't change anything either...)

No, they just defined a new area for the marketing people to exploit. And water down. Until we eventually end up with musical rebellion carefully packaged for the average pissed-off teenager.

Kind of reminds me of that Bill Hicks rant asking for marketing people to kill themselves, and they respond with:

"You know what Bill's doing now, he's going for the righteous indignation dollar, that's a big dollar, a lot of people are feeling that indignation, we've done research, huge market. He's doing a good thing."

Punk was a brief but enjoyable flash in the pan, before it got absorbed by the music business. Don't kid yourself it was any other way.

[Amberience]

It didn't really get absorbed. One can still be "punk" without being business punk.

But that begs the question, what is punk anyway? Is it anything more than uncontrolled cynicism?

[Hovmod]

punk is where you dress up like sex pistols and spit on clean things.

[ross g]

i guess the pistols didn't change anything either...)

No, they just defined a new area for the marketing people to exploit. And water down. Until we eventually end up with musical rebellion carefully packaged for the average pissed-off teenager.


Punk was a brief but enjoyable flash in the pan, before it got absorbed by the music business. Don't kid yourself it was any other way.

i really hate the over-compressed pre-packaged, fastfood emo punk pop of today...jumping off amps, twirling about, black clothes and tatts, and dating Hillary Duff now equal "punk"...makes me sick, "i wanna destroy"....so, so glad i got kids to influence, funny the dad telling kids that the music is too woosey and lite-rockish....

i don't think punk was a flash in the pan, Black Sabbath has as much an influence as do the Velvets/Stooges imo, as does rockabilly, Hank Williams, Ornette Coleman, etc...the spirit is alive, just dormant...she will rise again, our lovely muse...


rg

[Bunnyboy]

Jeez i cant believe all these people going on about punk being a flash in the pan thing

do you buy all your records from big lables from high-street chain stores??

no? well there you go, the DIY punk ethic is still there, as it was in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s

[ross g]

i guess the pistols didn't change anything either...)

No, they just defined a new area for the marketing people to exploit. And water down. Until we eventually end up with musical rebellion carefully packaged for the average pissed-off teenager.

Kind of reminds me of that Bill Hicks rant asking for marketing people to kill themselves, and they respond with:

"You know what Bill's doing now, he's going for the righteous indignation dollar, that's a big dollar, a lot of people are feeling that indignation, we've done research, huge market. He's doing a good thing."

Punk was a brief but enjoyable flash in the pan, before it got absorbed by the music business. Don't kid yourself it was any other way.

i don't know bill hicks, but re: pistols, i'm just being cynical...they brought back and updated the swagger, danger, and "teen mania" of rock 'n roll with a new household name: punk rock...not too shabby actually...


rg

[Blank_Frank]

It didn't really get absorbed. One can still be "punk" without being business punk.

But that begs the question, what is punk anyway? Is it anything more than uncontrolled cynicism?

The whole point of the 1970's punk period was that very few people could have predicted that the music would be successful, and they did sell a lot of records. So if I had to define "punk" now I'd say anything that catches the music business out by being unexpectedly successful. Like Crazy Frog.

I think I may have just defeated my own argument...

[A3ntar]

I always wondered his plan was. My first thought, to get her to drop that other guy. But then, the rest of the song is about how he'll never see her again. So the plan must be to get even fcking higher or something. Smart plan.

LOL, I was wondering exactly the same thing. He must be f**king high...Oh wait, he is.

[munchkin]

I wonder what the next thing will be...

[Bunnyboy]

The whole point of the 1970's punk period was that very few people could have predicted that the music would be successful, and they did sell a lot of records. So if I had to define "punk" now I'd say anything that catches the music business out by being unexpectedly successful. Like Crazy Frog.

I think I may have just defeated my own argument...

[ross g]

It didn't really get absorbed. One can still be "punk" without being business punk.

But that begs the question, what is punk anyway? Is it anything more than uncontrolled cynicism?

The whole point of the 1970's punk period was that very few people could have predicted that the music would be successful, and they did sell a lot of records. So if I had to define "punk" now I'd say anything that catches the music business out by being unexpectedly successful. Like Crazy Frog.

I think I may have just defeated my own argument...

funny...i had been from time time, thinking the only way to really change things, or at least to make an mpression, is to get power and then use it to your whims...that being said, i always thought "the ballad of john and yoko" was as punk as anything i've heard (once i got over my "beef with the beatles" phase)


rg