James Blunt

[clueless]

and even more disposable

Yeah....James Blunt for President! Time for real change.

and how does THAT dispose of politics?!

[kritikon]

First off, punk is not one of those things I admire too much. I like the music, but that's about it. I don't go in for the whole political aspect.

Saying that, I'm still fairly embarrassed for you. Music is a lot more than entertainment and business. It's only when Westerners like yourself dilute the meaning of music and make it a commercial entity, that it becomes entertainment.

Pfft... and you'll probably brush this off as something one of those pretentious arty types would say, but bollocks to it. I think music is the direct reflection of our souls, and further more, an extension of our own conciousness and perception.

For me, music is about self expression, not about changing the world. I'm not out to improve your life, her life, his life, their lives... I'm out to improve my life. And I want to do that by expressing the things I think and reflecting on my history and thought processes.

No..far from it mate...I actually think that comes across very well, and I respect it. That was far more prophetic and poetic than some corny lyricist who thinks they're speaking for anyone else. Good on you for saying it. For anyone, music can be an intense personal thing. It can be for me too. I wouldn't make my own music if it didn't do something ethereal for my own peace of mind. You're absolutely right about commercialism in music. I don't sell music any more - I have no interest in it - I make it solely and indisputeably for me - I really don't give a shite if every single soul on the planet thought my music sucks - which they couldn't anyway, because there's no way they're going to hear it.

But I still think it's complete masturbation for anyone to think their crummy lyrics are going to change the world. They might be poetry of the gods to themselves - and I'm not going to knock them for that. It gets even more masturbatory when for some weird reason people attach politics or sociology to music - that's just a side effect of commercialism, or even it's a cynical, planned commercial ploy.

I have no problem with someone getting some personal nirvana from listening to punk - that's what music should be about. It's all the "scene" crap which I find laughable.

[Amberience]

Yeah I'm with you. The "scene" crap does make me laugh, and many people into various scenes, not just punk, are wasting their lives. I'm all about diversity, which is why I can't ever really get into a specific genre too much. Plus there is always a lot of crap stuff out there.

I think words can change the world though. Look at the bible... it's just words, f**k all else to it. But it's changed our world in numerable ways.

Look at Darwins theory of evolution... same thing.
Look at the philosophy of Plato... same thing.

There are so many good books out there that have changed the world

[munchkin]

Music not political? Give me a break! Bob Dylan was the soundtrack at the birth of the political movements of the 60's. Try telling Kurds, the Irish and other people who have been oppressed in the past that music isn't political.

Why do you think every nation has a national anthem? And 'the Internationale' has been the song sung by every socialist for over 100 years.

The irony in dismissing punks political contribution to society is that punks helped organise Rock Against Racism and helped found the Anti Nazi League in the UK. At a time when the nazi National Front were the second largest political party in London. Without punks we might've ended up with our very own fuhrer.

It's alright sitting in a comfy leather computer chair re-writing history and dismissing punk and other music that has a political message. But why not practice what you preach and do something about the state of society like many punks did?

The phrase, "all shirt and no trousers", comes to mind.

[diverdee]

Good point about rock against racism & the anti nazi league, although I was introduced to all that through groups like the specials.
At a time when the british movement & national front were marching through Bradford a lot of those guys marched with the west indians & asian kids & fought with us as well, although it was mainly rude boys I was hanging with at the time.
Doubt BM would ever attempt to march through manningham again after the kicking they got back then.

[robenestobenz]

I think words can change the world though. Look at the bible... it's just words, fcuk all else to it. But it's changed our world in numerable ways.

Look at Darwins theory of evolution... same thing.
Look at the philosophy of Plato... same thing.

There are so many good books out there that have changed the world

It's the ideas that are the influential component here. Words are just a necessary vehicle for propagation and eventually, preservation.

[Amberience]

I think words can change the world though. Look at the bible... it's just words, fcuk all else to it. But it's changed our world in numerable ways.

Look at Darwins theory of evolution... same thing.
Look at the philosophy of Plato... same thing.

There are so many good books out there that have changed the world

It's the ideas that are the influential component here. Words are just a necessary vehicle for propagation and eventually, preservation.

How else would those ideas be expressed without words? So yes, it's the words that are important. Without them, those ideas wouldn't exist. Dude, we even THINK in words.

[robenestobenz]

How else would those ideas be expressed without words? So yes, it's the words that are important. Without them, those ideas wouldn't exist. Dude, we even THINK in words.

It's the ideas that are important. Everyone's got words.

And I'm not sure if all thought is in words.

[Kriminal]

Am I the only one to think that this guy sounds like a mini-me of Rod Stewart?

if by that you mean they both make you want to vomit when you hear their voices, then yes.

[Hovmod]

How else would those ideas be expressed without words? So yes, it's the words that are important. Without them, those ideas wouldn't exist. Dude, we even THINK in words.

It's the ideas that are important. Everyone's got words.

And I'm not sure if all thought is in words.

Chickens? Eggs?

[Voidoid Surrealist]

But I still think it's complete masturbation for anyone to think their crummy lyrics are going to change the world. They might be poetry of the gods to themselves - and I'm not going to knock them for that. It gets even more masturbatory when for some weird reason people attach politics or sociology to music - that's just a side effect of commercialism, or even it's a cynical, planned commercial ploy.

You're right, the act of writing lyrics doesn't change anything, but the act of listening to them does.

There are plenty of people out there who didn't really care about anything political until they picked up a Pete Seeger, Bob Marley, or Dead Kennedys album. A lot of people in this world could care less about things that go on around them, and if an artist can get them to do a bit of critical thinking along with their entertainment, then more power to them.

[Blank_Frank]

I just wanted to say I'm and about how this thread has managed to move from James "appropriate rhyming slang" Blunt to the true definition of Punk, political change through music and now the very nature of thought itself, and it's reliance on language.

You couldn't make this stuff up...

[diverdee]

I can remember as a kid hearing burning spear's 'slavery days', cunno how old I was but the lyrics combined with the fact that most of my mates were black had a lasting impression on me - completely changed my perceptions/perspective on many issues & helped shape the direction my life took - ultimately to studying the mechanisms of conflict & 3rd world debt issues at uni.
Music can be very powerful.

[kritikon]

Try telling Kurds, the Irish and other people who have been oppressed in the past that music isn't political.

Maybe they were oppressed in the first place to shut up their godawful music

[kritikon]

helped found the Anti Nazi League in the UK

Oh I dunno...every time I went on one of their marches (or more like ambushes ) it was all gay, lesbian and social workers or preferably at least 2 at the same time (and how could I forget the ubiquitous students). The lesbian social workers were the scariest. It was pretty well skinhead against skinhead. And none of them listened to punk. Ah....no, in fact it was the NF lot who usually listened to punk. Funny that....

You see, everyone has different recollections of the nostalgia stuff. But I distinctly remember punk being associated with people who had decidedly dodgy world views - Any proper skinhead I came across was heavily into punk. The pissheads were into it, the gluesniffers were into it. The poser students were into it.

Whereas you remember political lefties and cool people being into it. It's all tainted by our own experiences of it, and mine weren't good, yours were. Neither wrong.