KVR Audio

geeseaplenty · Post by **geeseaplenty** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:31 pm

I'm thinking about going for Traction 2 over upgrading Cubase SX.

Since I mostly record MIDI, I want to know if many plug-ins are stable in this host. What about the free SE synths? I have scads of them that I really like and don't want to have to deal with crashes and certain synths not working in it.

Is freeze better than in Cubase SX? This is one big reason I want it.

Are there many quantize options?

ceenda · Post by **ceenda** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:52 am

'fraid I don't know much about the first two, but hey, at least the post is getting a little bump.

geeseaplenty wrote: Are there many quantize options?

There is a quantize setting for MIDI clips which does non-destructive quantization on the notes inside the clip which can be turned on and off.

If you need further quantize functionality, you can open the clip (to get the piano roll), select the notes (or select one and Ctrl-A to select everything) and use the destructive quantize options in the property box to:
- Quantize note start times
- Quantize note end times

Best bet is to download the demo. It generates noise every minute or so, but you can test the freeze function and try out the SE synths to see if they are stable.

omicrom · Post by **omicrom** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:44 pm

DOn't do it !!! Tracktion 2.0 has a bug with most VSTi's that are not sample based. The problem is that if you record a midi loop with one preset, change the preset to another one while playing back, the program reverts the VSTi preset back to the first preset when the loop starts over. It also does this every time you restart the song!! I discovered this with great fustration and I had to scour my plugs folder to find which VSTi's worked and which ones did not. The only reply I got from Tracktion support was that Tracktion does not support all plug-ins. Well DUH!! Anyway, this has been my only gripe and I mostly use Tracktion 2.0 for audio and rewire of Reason 3.0. To make a long post short, do not buy Tracktion 2.0 for midi only! It seriously falls short of even an old version of Cubase.

nuisance sonore · Post by **nuisance sonore** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:46 pm

'Been using Tracktion for over a year, tried and demoed a whole bunch of synth during that time and encountered very few problems, and all problems so far I've found workaround for.

Some of the problems I've encountered:

NI synths silent on render; that I've found to be an incompatibility with FinalMix, I just don't use FM in project where I have any NI instruments (like GPO).

Z3ta effect dll in the incompatibility list: I just don't use those dll, the synth works just fine.

R66 reverb demo in the incompatibility list: I had Karma FX modular synth in my VSTI folder, once I removed that one, R66 was available again. Unfortunayely, by the time I discovered this the group buy for R66 was over.

Some clip would play with the wrong patch using a synth, that easy to solve just click on the clip the highlight it, click on "insert progam-change" => "remove all program-change message from this clip" and problem is solved. Mind you it's very rare that this cause problems.

Tracktion is extremely reliable and easy to use for midi as long as it stays internal, in fact I wouldn't use anything else for that purpose at the moment. The problems began when you want to interface with external equipement; if I was doing a lot of that, I would choose another sequencer. And exporting midi from Tracktion is problematic at best, I would go as far as saying that that feature is broken, purely and simply.

Also, you might want to know that Tracktion doesn't currently support Aftertouch. All other parameter are supported, and easy to automate. BUT, also, there's a problem where Tracktion doesn't close the VSTI interface, it just hides it, so when you have lots of automation written, CPU useage stays high even though you closed the VSTI interface as the VSTI is still automating the GUI.

The problems with Tracktion are pretty minor as it is quite solid overall and, while it still lacks some features, in some way it's even more powerfull than the big three (track routing amongst others, with or without racks, is really thing of beauty).

ModuLR · Post by **ModuLR** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:17 pm

omicrom wrote: DOn't do it !!! Tracktion 2.0 has a bug with most VSTi's that are not sample based. The problem is that if you record a midi loop with one preset, change the preset to another one while playing back, the program reverts the VSTi preset back to the first preset when the loop starts over.

did you accidently record a midi program change? That would explain why the preset would change... I've never had a problem switching presets while playing back...

did you bring it up in the forum here? cos Tracktion is compatible with nearly every plug out there.

haydxn · Post by **haydxn** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:23 pm

ModuLR wrote:
omicrom wrote: DOn't do it !!! Tracktion 2.0 has a bug with most VSTi's that are not sample based. The problem is that if you record a midi loop with one preset, change the preset to another one while playing back, the program reverts the VSTi preset back to the first preset when the loop starts over.
did you accidently record a midi program change? That would explain why the preset would change... I've never had a problem switching presets while playing back... did you bring it up in the forum here? cos Tracktion is compatible with nearly every plug out there.

gotta back mod up here- omicrom you've managed to do something weird because i've been using T2 for 2 years, don't have any sample based plugins and have never been so "WTF is he banging on about?" about a post in a long while! you just managed to record a program change message or something like that.

sorry that you did something weird but that's pretty much all nonsense.

androidlove · Post by **androidlove** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:41 pm

Some clip would play with the wrong patch using a synth, that easy to solve just click on the clip the highlight it, click on "insert progam-change" => "remove all program-change message from this clip" and problem is solved. Mind you it's very rare that this cause problems.

tis an annoying problem in a great program

rpc9943 · Post by **rpc9943** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:57 pm

i use tracktion 2 and thats total bull crap. I dont have any problems with program shifting. If you do have problems please post them in the raw materials forum so the developer can work on it.

RonC

rockstar_not · Post by **rockstar_not** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:21 pm

Haven't ever experienced this bogus program change thing. Of the hundred or so freebie VSTi that I have installed, a good 75% of the SE type, I've never had this issue.

My ignore VST list has perhaps 10 items in it, and when I look, those are DX .dll that made their way into the VST folder during install.

-Scott

diverdee · Post by **diverdee** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:43 pm

In my personal opinion tracktion is still much more aimed at audio sequencing.
I moved to Live (which has it's own problems with midi, but which I still prefer) - personally I found a fair few niggles with midi in tracktion.
One example below, it's a while since i've used tracktion, so I can't remember all the problems I had, maybe they've been fixed? (although I keep an eye out on how tracktion is developing & haven't noticed fixes for certain problems).
Cycle recording (layering up a track bit by bit)wouldn't work with midi properly, instead of adding new notes to the previous recording it would completely overwrite them for one - I found a whole host of related problems to do with loop & punch in/out recording using midi that I did post about in the raw material forums quite extensively - I decided to move on.

rockstar_not · Post by **rockstar_not** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:54 pm

diverdee wrote:Cycle recording (layering up a track bit by bit)wouldn't work with midi properly, instead of adding new notes to the previous recording it would completely overwrite them for one - I found a whole host of related problems to do with loop & punch in/out recording using midi that I did post about in the raw material forums quite extensively - I decided to move on.

Diverdee - seems you missed a setting: This is directly from the Tracktion 1 help pages:

"What other tricks are there when recording midi?
It's possible to use a looped record mode for recording midi. To do this, set your in and out markers around the area to loop, turn on the 'loop' option (bottom-right of the screen), connect a midi input device to a track, and press record.
In loop mode, successive layers of midi input are overlaid on the same new clips, so that, for instance, different drum sounds can be played one at a time to build up a complex drum loop. After the recording is stopped, pressing undo will undo each layer in turn, so mistakes can be corrected without throwing away the entire recording.

Midi input devices also have an option - 'merge into existing clips' - that means that midi recordings which overlap an existing midi clip will merge the contents of the two clips together into one big one."

Did you have the "merge into existing clips" option selected?

This has always worked for me.

-Scott

diverdee · Post by **diverdee** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:36 pm

yes - it didn't work.
I spent one whole evening messing with various permutations of loop recording & punch in/out, recording passages of various lengths & if I remember correctly it was officially responded to/noted that loop recording etc. didn't work properly.
Others also duplicated my probs.
I can't remember everything that I did, as after reporting it & having others also complain about the same problem nothing changed so I decided it wasn't for me.
If it does now work - that's cool, but as with all potential software purchases i'd strongly advise the OP to try the demo & seriously put it through it's paces on the midi side of things.

androidlove · Post by **androidlove** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:40 pm

whoa there pissed off ppl. maybe the patch change thing is fixed with t2. i have t1 nfr and the problem is very real. i KNOW others have experienced this

diverdee · Post by **diverdee** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:44 pm

the problems with layering, overlapping ets originally posted http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... highlight=
there were other posts along similar lines:

posted in a thread some time ago about how loop mode & midi doesn't seem to work - to refresh - if your looping & overlaying midi clips - it doesn't work if the clips the same length it merges instead. Just been playing around again - this time using punch in mode - just trying out some workaround's for the lack of a pr & post roll. anyway I set mode to punch & 'overlay clips' - recorded some notes - & wa-hey!!! it die create a new clip over the top of the original one - problem is that the clip was empty - & the newly recorede midi notes were merged into the clip underneath - I would guess that this is a bug? though to be honest in punch in mode you are more likely to merge or replace. Addendum - in loop mode it also doesn't overlay clips - you still end up with merged notes & an empty clip even if you stop the recording short - So basically the 'overlay' option just doesn't seem to work - anyone else tried this? - oh it does overlay properly if neither loop or punch in are activated. - ahh but only if you start recording from the very beggining of the clip - it u start part way in - it creates an empty clip & merges the notes into the original again???? Weird shit dudes.
I'v done some more testing - & basically overlay mode only starts to actually work once the song position passes the start of a clip - that's when it will actually start recording notes into the overlayed clip - now if u record from the beggining of one clip - past the end & part way into another clip it still overlays BUT if you keep on recording past the end of the second clip - you once again end up with a blank clip - & the notes merged into the original clips - i'm probably explainig this very poorly - it's late & i'm tired - but this function does seem to warrant the epitaph 'broken' & i'm wondering how it got past beta-testing. & would mod type person please try to replicate this behaviour, confirm & pass on to mackie?

So the problem was more to do with overlaying clips etc. & ending up with empty ones instead.
So you can merge (even when you don't actually want to), but looping & using punch in/out are/were problematic.

droolmaster0 · Post by **droolmaster0** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:27 pm

haydxn wrote:
ModuLR wrote:
omicrom wrote: DOn't do it !!! Tracktion 2.0 has a bug with most VSTi's that are not sample based. The problem is that if you record a midi loop with one preset, change the preset to another one while playing back, the program reverts the VSTi preset back to the first preset when the loop starts over.
did you accidently record a midi program change? That would explain why the preset would change... I've never had a problem switching presets while playing back... did you bring it up in the forum here? cos Tracktion is compatible with nearly every plug out there.
gotta back mod up here- omicrom you've managed to do something weird because i've been using T2 for 2 years, don't have any sample based plugins and have never been so "WTF is he banging on about?" about a post in a long while! you just managed to record a program change message or something like that.

sorry that you did something weird but that's pretty much all nonsense.

Sorry - but I think that there is an issue with program changes getting into tracks in some situations without being recorded. I experienced this several times with Tracktion and have NOT experienced this with other hosts. But, who cares, I sold Tracktion because the midi routing is too inflexible for my setup w/external synths and sequencers.

Traction 2 for Exclusively MIDI