BBE Sonic Maximizer: Still the best exciter?

[jmh]

"You suck", now that's classic.

I wonder what it is about mixing and mastering that brings out the weird in people and their choices/views/opinions and somewhat enforcing them on others...

One thing I especially never get is the stupid extreme thinking in any subject. Why is EQing suddenly a chore someone spends too much time on? (Actually I've seen this thrown around every time - where exactly is it stated that people spend so friggin' much time with it?) It could just as stupidly be said that one is using BBE as a crutch for a crappy mix and lack of skills and ears combined with lousy material if it's in the chain every time - and yet I (nor anyone else really) is stating that every time this topic is discussed. Why can't the EQing be just a part of the process - as it very well is for most people I've ever seen working on music?

Continuing in a similar vein... why can't a touch of exciter/enhancer be just the thing that makes the music shine? Why should it always be done with EQ instead (especially since by nature, they aren't the same thing?!)?

There's an uncanny similarity to several things, let's say tubes just for the sake of it. Why is it that if a discussion appears about using something that has tubes in it, the argumentation instantly goes into throwing around the most extreme applications (ie. "I always process everything with tube gear!!!" and "I've never needed tubes, you're just using them to hide the crappy sound you started with!")?

This exciter/enhancer stuff goes through the same hoops every time - except that now the most ridiculously extreme views on EQing are getting mixed into it as well.

Oh well... in the meantime those that get the results they're after with some enhancing/exciting just get it done while the diehard supporters of either extreme point spend their time trying to convince the others that their approach is the only one

The usual 'magic box' comments are flying as well - why is it that this sort of commentary every time appears targeted towards others' ability to judge for themselves whether a piece of hard- or software provides them with useful, goodsounding results, when it right on the surface states "I don't know what it does" and implies (normally by attached remarks) "and I don't believe it does the trick but I'm not even familiar with it"?

Classic KVR.

(FYI, I'm deliberately just picking out isolated comments from several posts, so apologies if any particular person feels like they're being targeted. And there's some of that 'going into extremes' stuff to enhance (geddit?) the point I'm trying to make.)

JMH

[bmanic]

Jmh! You're back.. and awake 10am. Amazing. Guess what? I just installed FL 6. It rocks.

- bManic

[jmh]

Just downloading the demo myself... and I've been up since 7:30 - this feels so unnatural

There's nothing like some EXCITEMENT about FL6 though

JMH

[fabi]

too bad crysonic don't allow paypal.

[lion_cub]

As for being a gimmick - it's no more a gimmick than Eq. Anything is a gimmick if you personally don't use or like it.

So, according to your definition, if someone does'nt like something or does'nt use it, it's a gimmick.

Hmmmm. Makes a lot of sense.

[fabi]

As for being a gimmick - it's no more a gimmick than Eq. Anything is a gimmick if you personally don't use or like it.

So, according to your definition, if someone does'nt like something or does'nt use it, it's a gimmick.

Hmmmm. Makes a lot of sense.

to that person. yes.

[el davo]

"You suck", now that's classic.

I wonder what it is about mixing and mastering that brings out the weird in people and their choices/views/opinions and somewhat enforcing them on others...

One thing I especially never get is the stupid extreme thinking in any subject. Why is EQing suddenly a chore someone spends too much time on? (Actually I've seen this thrown around every time - where exactly is it stated that people spend so friggin' much time with it?) It could just as stupidly be said that one is using BBE as a crutch for a crappy mix and lack of skills and ears combined with lousy material if it's in the chain every time - and yet I (nor anyone else really) is stating that every time this topic is discussed. Why can't the EQing be just a part of the process - as it very well is for most people I've ever seen working on music?

Continuing in a similar vein... why can't a touch of exciter/enhancer be just the thing that makes the music shine? Why should it always be done with EQ instead (especially since by nature, they aren't the same thing?!)?

There's an uncanny similarity to several things, let's say tubes just for the sake of it. Why is it that if a discussion appears about using something that has tubes in it, the argumentation instantly goes into throwing around the most extreme applications (ie. "I always process everything with tube gear!!!" and "I've never needed tubes, you're just using them to hide the crappy sound you started with!")?

This exciter/enhancer stuff goes through the same hoops every time - except that now the most ridiculously extreme views on EQing are getting mixed into it as well.

Oh well... in the meantime those that get the results they're after with some enhancing/exciting just get it done while the diehard supporters of either extreme point spend their time trying to convince the others that their approach is the only one

The usual 'magic box' comments are flying as well - why is it that this sort of commentary every time appears targeted towards others' ability to judge for themselves whether a piece of hard- or software provides them with useful, goodsounding results, when it right on the surface states "I don't know what it does" and implies (normally by attached remarks) "and I don't believe it does the trick but I'm not even familiar with it"?

Classic KVR.

(FYI, I'm deliberately just picking out isolated comments from several posts, so apologies if any particular person feels like they're being targeted. And there's some of that 'going into extremes' stuff to enhance (geddit?) the point I'm trying to make.)

JMH

Jmh, you rock!

[omo]

Sure. Then how come they're so popular in professional studios?

they aren't

[dirtnap]

hum... in the 6 short years i've been producing, the only people I've ever met who used those things were dj's, live sound guys, and a few college rock cover bands.

as for adding warmth... I'm surprised nobody mentioned PSP Vintagewarmer.

[bmanic]

[bduffy]

eh?

btw. the comment to Ew was inteded to be very light-hearted, hence the smiley. People need to lighten up a bit when reading forums.

Cheers!
bManic

Sorry, Bmanic. I was hoping that was obviously light-hearted too. I didn't mean it and I apologize if anyone took it that way. I guess I should've thrown in a silly face or something. Damn.

IT's funny you say "People need to lighten up a bit", because that's what I was trying to say about your attitude toward people using exciters, but hey, public sentiment has swung back in favour of your position, probably thanks to me.

[Barbarossa]

IMO exciters are no longer really necessary today, because of the sound quality synths and SCDs deliver today. A Virus, Pro53 or Z3ta have already a huge amount of harmonics, where you have to decide, which part to cut down.
In most cases today we have the full spectrum up to 20kHz avail, so there's no need to add harmonics, like in the days of a M1.

IMO tracks and mixes that really profit from exciters today, usually are badly eqed. The n the errors lie in the equalization (or bad chosen source material) and an exciter just covers them with more treble.
In general i'd suggest to forget exciters and try to get a sparkling and silky sound out of the rough-material just with eqing.
BTW: the BBE is not really an exciter. It doesn't add harmonics. It is said that it does some phase shifting combined with a normal filter-process.

[sonicfire]

the best exciter is "exit", part of my fx-bundle

[jmh]

I've always viewed enhancers and exciters as yet another tools for sound processing... not as instant magic or cure for bad quality.

And in that fashion, I see use for them. Especially with drums - anything that can alter their character without doing too much change is good in my book. You should see my collection of 909 hihats alone, everything from enhanced, excited, distorted, "tube warmified", "vinylized", combfiltered to younameit, as for me a part of the process when I'm starting on a track, I prefer having things that already have some character to them instead of going the "let's start with the same clean sample and later on slap a chain of effects on it to make it different"

... and none of them are treated that way because they're badly EQed

Same goes for drumloops, something that alters the basic character of the loop is always useful, instead of compressor+EQ only. I usually make a few variations of each loop I label useful, when I add them to my sample collection. In that task, enhancers and exciters are good alternative to simple EQing, although something like the dynamic EQ from Sonalksis might be just as good for this - but it'd result in a different outcome so I wouldn't replace either with the other

Regards,

JMH
Regards,

JMH

[kritikon]

kritikon wrote:
As for being a gimmick - it's no more a gimmick than Eq. Anything is a gimmick if you personally don't use or like it.


So, according to your definition, if someone does'nt like something or does'nt use it, it's a gimmick.

Hmmmm. Makes a lot of sense. Rolling Eyes

It's just as sensible as the comment that enhancers are gimmicks. Whoever thinks that enhancers are a gimmick is presumably because he doesn't like them. That's his opinion, but it doesn't make them a gimmick. I'm not saying that Eq is a gimmick - but by that logic, yes, it can be seen as a gimmick. Anything that makes life easier can be seen as a gimmick. Myself, I like things that make life easier.

In most cases today we have the full spectrum up to 20kHz avail, so there's no need to add harmonics, like in the days of a M1.

Not all enhancers add harmonics.
Crysonics make much out of their phase correction - I've seen no evidence on my music that they use harmonics at all. The BBE doesn't add harmonics.

I just don't see why some people have such an aversion to enhancers. As with any mixing tool, the better your mix, the better the tool will work. You should always strive to get the best mix you can with the best tools at your disposal. I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks you can make a bad mix sound good with an enhancer. Same as it would be extremely difficult to make it sound more than a souped up bad mix with any number of fancy Eqs and compressors and tubes. Enhancers have their uses; whether that be over the best mix you can achieve, or over a group, or even over one channel (although I don't think that's their best use IMO). If you achieve a truly good mix, why not use an enhancer to add just a little bit more sheen to it? I occasionally manage to get some great mixes (usually not though ) and they always sound just that little bit better if I use an enhancer properly.
Maybe one day I'll get "the perfect mix" and I won't want to use anything on it...but there is no such thing as "the perfect mix" to everyone's ears, is there?