Oi!:xJackDark wrote:so if i wrapped my hard work in a bland-assed boring grey box and filled it with symmetrical knobs and levers, then they'd take it seriously?
GlitchGirl-NEO - and then a bunch of random insanity.
-
- KVRist
- 96 posts since 22 Jul, 2004
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2277 posts since 2 Dec, 2003
-diverdee
i have tested nearly a thousand freeware plugs on my machine, easily. that is not an exaggeration. i use to run a forum dedicated to them. out of those hundreds of plugs, i have about 30 freeware ones in my folder. there is a difference between a freeware plug that took 3 hours to make, and one which took 30. the difference is obvious from the outset after you've tested for long enough. to you i advise clearing the whole folder out, then going through the KVR archives using the search engine in the instruments/effects database, or have a look at the Lords Of Synthedit link in my sig.
-Vurt
i think you're a genius with your musical endeavors actually. as i said before, you're a model of reception.
-Saulhaq
why is that? i have advertised every single one of my plugs i've ever released on -this- forum, alone. maybe it's just me, but i read every single thread i see, especially if it says "free". maybe i just hang out here chronically though, right? i'm glad you like what you've found however.
-Ianweb123
the GUI "niche" is actually only for the freeware stuff. the "sexy" girls part of it... that's only cool for so long, even to me. i have other GUI ideas that will be actually integral to the design, but the work involved to do so outweighs the possibility of just giving a plug using that technique away. i really feel that -all of us-, every VST developer, needs to get our collective minds outside the "gotta look like hardware to be taken seriously" box, and truly take advantage of the fact that a VST can look like anything. pixels are for sculpting, not mimicking.
>I think the reason that you get a lot of downloads is because you've >done such a distinctive job with the GUIs
yes and that pains me because i actually put a lot of effort into the actual "sound" of the VSTs, much more than i did the GUIs. i now realize i need to go back and post an .MP3 for even the freeware ones. people work differently than me on that mindset but that's fair enough.
>I say keep it up
i'm far from giving up. i'm only just now starting to get where i want to be. i have a long term plan/goal and i'm already further along than i thought i would be in the course of the five months i've been using SE.
>try to reconcile yourself to the fact that a lot of users will >download everything in sight and very few will actually use anything >that they download for free, irrespective of the DEV..
that's very unusal to me, but i'm just different than that. i've tried -everything- out there for free, unless it involves an installer. i have reservations against installers.
>lot to be said for building a reputation with free releases, so my >recomendation would be to not give up on it entirely..
i still plan to release free stuff. i'm just not going to 30 hours coding a free plug ever again. i thought people would give me feedback, that's all i wanted. i didn't want my ass licked or anything like that, i just wanted to know what folks thought about something as intentionally unique as GlitchGirl-NEO... whether those thoughts were negative or positive irregardless.
>sending me tunes done with my stuff
i've got about 20 songs i've kept that people've sent me using my plugs, and i listen to them all the time. i appreciate that. but i can't say i appreciate it as much as i would intellectual feedback.
i appreciate your concern and words of wisdom Ianweb123, please don't think i don't. i'm a little pissy right now but i'm about to kick this soapbox out from under my feet and just go back to the drawing board again. i think you're a kickass dev, and for the record Cygnus and EZ Poly are my favorites by Krakli, they are both unbelievably good.
for the record on all this, i'm standing up not just for myself here, but for all the freeware devs who've given a hell of a lot and received quite a bit less. they perhaps have better reservations than i do, or more patience. but i'm tired of seeing martyrs go out with a whimper.
i have tested nearly a thousand freeware plugs on my machine, easily. that is not an exaggeration. i use to run a forum dedicated to them. out of those hundreds of plugs, i have about 30 freeware ones in my folder. there is a difference between a freeware plug that took 3 hours to make, and one which took 30. the difference is obvious from the outset after you've tested for long enough. to you i advise clearing the whole folder out, then going through the KVR archives using the search engine in the instruments/effects database, or have a look at the Lords Of Synthedit link in my sig.
-Vurt
i think you're a genius with your musical endeavors actually. as i said before, you're a model of reception.
-Saulhaq
why is that? i have advertised every single one of my plugs i've ever released on -this- forum, alone. maybe it's just me, but i read every single thread i see, especially if it says "free". maybe i just hang out here chronically though, right? i'm glad you like what you've found however.
-Ianweb123
the GUI "niche" is actually only for the freeware stuff. the "sexy" girls part of it... that's only cool for so long, even to me. i have other GUI ideas that will be actually integral to the design, but the work involved to do so outweighs the possibility of just giving a plug using that technique away. i really feel that -all of us-, every VST developer, needs to get our collective minds outside the "gotta look like hardware to be taken seriously" box, and truly take advantage of the fact that a VST can look like anything. pixels are for sculpting, not mimicking.
>I think the reason that you get a lot of downloads is because you've >done such a distinctive job with the GUIs
yes and that pains me because i actually put a lot of effort into the actual "sound" of the VSTs, much more than i did the GUIs. i now realize i need to go back and post an .MP3 for even the freeware ones. people work differently than me on that mindset but that's fair enough.
>I say keep it up
i'm far from giving up. i'm only just now starting to get where i want to be. i have a long term plan/goal and i'm already further along than i thought i would be in the course of the five months i've been using SE.
>try to reconcile yourself to the fact that a lot of users will >download everything in sight and very few will actually use anything >that they download for free, irrespective of the DEV..
that's very unusal to me, but i'm just different than that. i've tried -everything- out there for free, unless it involves an installer. i have reservations against installers.
>lot to be said for building a reputation with free releases, so my >recomendation would be to not give up on it entirely..
i still plan to release free stuff. i'm just not going to 30 hours coding a free plug ever again. i thought people would give me feedback, that's all i wanted. i didn't want my ass licked or anything like that, i just wanted to know what folks thought about something as intentionally unique as GlitchGirl-NEO... whether those thoughts were negative or positive irregardless.
>sending me tunes done with my stuff
i've got about 20 songs i've kept that people've sent me using my plugs, and i listen to them all the time. i appreciate that. but i can't say i appreciate it as much as i would intellectual feedback.
i appreciate your concern and words of wisdom Ianweb123, please don't think i don't. i'm a little pissy right now but i'm about to kick this soapbox out from under my feet and just go back to the drawing board again. i think you're a kickass dev, and for the record Cygnus and EZ Poly are my favorites by Krakli, they are both unbelievably good.
for the record on all this, i'm standing up not just for myself here, but for all the freeware devs who've given a hell of a lot and received quite a bit less. they perhaps have better reservations than i do, or more patience. but i'm tired of seeing martyrs go out with a whimper.
-
- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
Good advice & pretty much what i've done - stripped to the bare minimum, relying to a certain extent on reviews & opinions here on kvr.JackDark wrote:-diverdee
to you i advise clearing the whole folder out, then going through the KVR archives using the search engine in the instruments/effects database, or have a look at the Lords Of Synthedit link in my sig.
-
- KVRist
- 35 posts since 29 Nov, 2004
I just d/l'd your new plug, and I think it's terrific. I also like the GUI, and find it inspiriational to go off to way out areas... something I don't tend to do. Your plugs are a lot of fun both in messing up loops, and to look at. I hope you keep going with those GUI's. Nothing wrong with being unique in that area. There's plenty of other plugs out there with boring GUI's, whether they are good plugs or not. I like a little something different, and you offer that.
Please keep them coming!
Please keep them coming!
-
- KVRAF
- 5017 posts since 13 Dec, 2005 from The Void
Jack dark, please see your PM box.
This is not a solicitation.
This is not a solicitation.
Jens, "B.t.w.: it appears I was wrong"
-
- KVRAF
- 5017 posts since 13 Dec, 2005 from The Void
...PLEASE see your PM box..JackDark wrote:but i'm tired of seeing martyrs go out with a whimper.[/b]
Jens, "B.t.w.: it appears I was wrong"
-
- DC TC
- 2518 posts since 30 May, 2004
sorry if you took the "get a grip" remark in an offensive way. (good thing i didn't use the slap emoticon :p) no such thing intended. i just said it in response to your "me whiney right?" thing. i understand you bro. look at xoxos! you all know what happened to him. there wasn't a thing i could do, by myself, to save him. i wish i had millions so that i could support each and every one of you freeware developers. it is sad, truly sad. it is our fault. you shouldn't have to ask for a simple thank you. a mere 5 bucks. or simply feedback. from now on i will try even harder to put a smile in your faces just like you have in mine. as for feedback, i don't, most of the time, know what i'm doing or talking about musically. i doubt anything useful will come out of my feedback. but as i promised you before i will do reviews and feedback specific to your stuff and i will do the same for others as well. i won't lie, xoxos is one of my favorite people in the world and he's like a bigger brother to me. i just can't believe that i haven't even done any reviews for his atomic traveler series, talent, surface, steam. now i say all this bullshit that i love xoxos and he's a big brother and whatnot. am i an asshole? yes. it would've taken 5 minutes for each. why didn't i do it? there's no excuse. for a person that i respect so much i should've done that so much. i don't know if this is gonna start a huge feedback/review campaign but i would be really happy to see freeware developers honored in a much deserved way. save a pig today! funny enough to make you laugh. sad enough to make you cry. i will do my best from now on to honor those that have made me, as well as others, happy with their sweat and blood. keep your chin up jack, you are a gem.
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2277 posts since 2 Dec, 2003
Tuz I appreciate your feedback and positive comments. If I changed one person's opinion that is good enough for today.
Do I wish my diatribe would bring more positive light upon freeware-little-guy-devs? Yes. Will it? No.
Any rampage I make with words might as well be so much piss in the wind.
Sickle was right with the PM he sent me, and if he wants to post it I won't take offense. I am not the other devs and I can't speak for how they feel. So, whatever, they have their reasons and I have mine, they have their motivations and I have mine.
I'm not in this shit for the money. If I wanted money I'd play the stock market, not create VST, especially off the wall stuff like I do. Getting paid for my efforts is -nice-, it's nice to make money to go towards the rent, or towards buying my daughter one more Christmas present, but to be rich and famous? I could rob a bank and be both in a matter of 15 minutes.
I know not the future of freeware in this slowly evolving industry we muck about in, but I can say that I have seen less and less -quality- freeware developed over the last two years without doubt. Many devs who use to make freeware are now mainly making buyware only. Why this is, maybe I cannot say with full authority, but I already said my opinion earlier regardless.
So in the end, my opinion = freeware is only a labor of love afterall. But if you enjoy doing something, than a moment spent enjoyed is not a moment wasted.
Do I wish my diatribe would bring more positive light upon freeware-little-guy-devs? Yes. Will it? No.
Any rampage I make with words might as well be so much piss in the wind.
Sickle was right with the PM he sent me, and if he wants to post it I won't take offense. I am not the other devs and I can't speak for how they feel. So, whatever, they have their reasons and I have mine, they have their motivations and I have mine.
I'm not in this shit for the money. If I wanted money I'd play the stock market, not create VST, especially off the wall stuff like I do. Getting paid for my efforts is -nice-, it's nice to make money to go towards the rent, or towards buying my daughter one more Christmas present, but to be rich and famous? I could rob a bank and be both in a matter of 15 minutes.
I know not the future of freeware in this slowly evolving industry we muck about in, but I can say that I have seen less and less -quality- freeware developed over the last two years without doubt. Many devs who use to make freeware are now mainly making buyware only. Why this is, maybe I cannot say with full authority, but I already said my opinion earlier regardless.
So in the end, my opinion = freeware is only a labor of love afterall. But if you enjoy doing something, than a moment spent enjoyed is not a moment wasted.
-
- KVRAF
- 3191 posts since 20 Sep, 2004 from Atlanta
Jack - I am one of the many guilty ones out there. I've d'ld all your stuff and the only one I haven't bought so far is Battery Acid- and it's not because I don't like it! (Bit Basher is still my favorite flavor 
but in reading (...the majority of...) this thread- you are right. We all need feedback for the work we accomplish- and you have accomplished some incredible work. your mangling devices have created sounds that I'm not yet able to wrap into my ideas... and that is NOT a bad thing. Quite the contrary. Your work has pushed my ideas to different places they may not have gone before so I salute and thank you.
I would have done so before now, but it's sooo easy to forget to thank the developers sometimes- and are absolutely right:
"the future of the VST evolution is in YOUR hands, NOT the developers. if you want unique and interesting stuff, act like it. being passive will only get you boring expensive bullshit. "
I will try to remember this and to remember to do my damndest to thank you freebie-devs for yours is a labor of love.
but in reading (...the majority of...) this thread- you are right. We all need feedback for the work we accomplish- and you have accomplished some incredible work. your mangling devices have created sounds that I'm not yet able to wrap into my ideas... and that is NOT a bad thing. Quite the contrary. Your work has pushed my ideas to different places they may not have gone before so I salute and thank you.
I would have done so before now, but it's sooo easy to forget to thank the developers sometimes- and are absolutely right:
"the future of the VST evolution is in YOUR hands, NOT the developers. if you want unique and interesting stuff, act like it. being passive will only get you boring expensive bullshit. "
I will try to remember this and to remember to do my damndest to thank you freebie-devs for yours is a labor of love.
-
- KVRAF
- 1817 posts since 1 Jun, 2003
i'd appreciate if sickle could post his pm here. i'd really like to know, i value his input. if not, that's fine, it's his decision.
also, maybe the announcements on kvr for new vst, especially freeware, could contain a small paragraph encouraging people to give feedback to the developers, and list the reasons why both the devs and the user benefit from this.
i think a lot of people simply don't realize their feedback or gratitude will have an impact on the person behind the software.
also, maybe the announcements on kvr for new vst, especially freeware, could contain a small paragraph encouraging people to give feedback to the developers, and list the reasons why both the devs and the user benefit from this.
i think a lot of people simply don't realize their feedback or gratitude will have an impact on the person behind the software.
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2277 posts since 2 Dec, 2003
Not having feedback while developing experimental sound devices is like developing new drugs without having lab mice.
-
- KVRAF
- 2058 posts since 23 Sep, 2004 from Canada
j_p wrote:Oi!:xJackDark wrote:so if i wrapped my hard work in a bland-assed boring grey box and filled it with symmetrical knobs and levers, then they'd take it seriously?
That's a great little step sequencer.
It seemed hard to get more people excited about it in the Instruments section when it was announced.
Oh well a few of us love it
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2277 posts since 2 Dec, 2003
Not that I advocate injecting small mammals with potentially harmful substances.
-
- KVRAF
- 2058 posts since 23 Sep, 2004 from Canada
If I might add Jack your UI designs are generally fabulous.
I don't use any of the plugs however which is the only reason why I haven't offered feedback.
Just find I have enough mangle potential with what I have.
If I had d'loaded any of them I would have been more than willing too offer feedback none the less.
I don't use any of the plugs however which is the only reason why I haven't offered feedback.
Just find I have enough mangle potential with what I have.
If I had d'loaded any of them I would have been more than willing too offer feedback none the less.