KVR Audio

paradiddle · Post by **paradiddle** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 4:41 pm

That's what I use to do on hammond when I was a kid. I guess it's only natural to wanna kick it.

james0tucson wrote:Thanks Duncan. I wish I could kick it and get the characteristic kicked-spring-reverb sound

duncanparsons · Post by **duncanparsons** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:44 am

I've found that running a kick drum through it is similar to the classic effect

It might need a 'poing' bit I'm mostly happy so far. I'm having a little trouble with 're-exciting' the spring from the coil movement.. it basically creates a massive feedback network! I might use a ducking gate to avoid overloads...

Anyway, I'm glad that it's getting a positive response! Amazing what you can do with two delays, a chorus, and envelope follower and a 2PoleLP

DSP

Meloday · Post by **Meloday** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:06 am

so far, so dub

thanks!!!

ohm · Post by **ohm** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:27 pm

my dub chords really like this one. I'd love to be able make the sound brighter and slightly more complex. Perhaps that single lp filter could be accompanied by a bandpass in parallel? Just an idea.
I can always load the effect twice for added complexity, but as some users pointed out: it does sound more like a delay than a reverb - have you tried adding some more delay lines?

duncanparsons · Post by **duncanparsons** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:51 pm

Beta 2

Added:
CoilInteraction
Effects of the coil can continue to excite the spring, creating a slightly longer tail.

CoilImpulse
Amount of the raw signal exciting the coils directly, rather than solely as a result of the spring of itself.

SpringBrightness
Add a little more zing to the spring effect, separate to the coil.

To me, this is sounding better. A number of the initial parameters have been tweaked in terms of what they alter. I'm particularly happy with the build up of tones if (say) you send a number of snares in quick succession.

In the short term, you should be able to get it from here. I'll put it on my webspace when I next have access to it [can't get it at work!]
{EDIT: Now direct link, not YouSendIt

}

wrt to delay/reverbyness, I must go back to what I said earlier about the nature of a springline reverb. It isn't really a 'reverb' in what we have come to expect. A spring was induced to vibrate at one end, and the reverberations were picked up at the other end. It would be like a delay with other excitations.
I used to have an old valve driven Bird Organ which somewhat died a death, and so a mate and I stripped it down. He took the 3 spring unit from it, and made it into a separate effect. Used heavily with a snare, you would get 3 or 4 repeats with a build of overtones. I have modelled around this. You could set up a long spring, with the Spring<->Coil set round at mostly coil for this; or set the length around the 1/3 or 1/2 mark for a less reverberant version.

I'm happy to introduce more lines as required, but I want to stay focussed on the old analogue devices, rather than interpreting what we have got only too used to with the plethora of more 'natural' sounding room verbs around.

Hopefully the new parameters will help to drive towards this, but I'm open to more suggestion. I'll toy with the bp idea

DSP

ohm · Post by **ohm** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:45 pm

that was fast

wrt to delay/reverbyness, I didn't try to push the project in the direction of the average cheapo comb filter reverb - Actually I meant something like the features you just added

I never owned a real spring reverb, but I have used a number of spring reverb impulses and they seem to sound more "reverb-like".
I'll try beta 2 tonight.

duncanparsons · Post by **duncanparsons** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:16 pm

..wasn't that fast really - I just hadn't had time to load it up anywhere from work, then remembered yousendit!!

One day I'll have ago at a real reverb, but I have other things I need to do first. I do have a plan for a semimodular-multi-delayline effect with all a sort of internal bussing architecture.. but one thing at a time!

I did have an idea of how to incorporate the BP as part of the induction process, but we'll see.

DSP

BobYordan · Post by **BobYordan** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:31 pm

I just downloaded both, I really like spring reverb much more than winter reverrrrrrrb = cold.

Will check them out tonight.

Sleepgolfer · Post by **Sleepgolfer** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 5:03 pm

I really like this reverb of yours! Is it possible to make the reverb time longer, although I know it wouldn't be characteristic of a real spring reverb...I just like the dull sound you hear at the end of every reverb and would love it if it would be possible to make it 4 or 5 seconds long...Great work, duncan!

duncanparsons · Post by **duncanparsons** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 11:25 pm

Ta for that SleepGolfer. I quite like it as well, and have been looking into a way to get it a little longer (tho' it would be uncharacteristic!) I am trying to be as authentic as possible whilst keeping a simplicity of design, so if it does happen it's more serendipity than forethought...

Bob.

DSP

soundsubs · Post by **soundsubs** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:34 am

hey there duncan-

first off, great plug! i applaud you trying to make something different and experimental. also, im excited by the possibilities this might yield since youre kinda doing physical modelling instead of yet another reverb.
now some feedback.
1.) i own a real spring reverb, and love its sound. i have scoured the internet for good impulses. not much out there. as i said before, i would LOVE if it this was a passable spring reverb. i know its beta, but can we have a little bit of reverb? i played with this and randomized it for about an hour-- no reverb.

2.) stereo please? pretty please? i like mono, so keep that as an option, but man stereo would really deepen this bad boy.

3.) a "kick" is in order. put a button on the side of it with a little foot that kicks when you click it--- thus passing a full bandwidth stimulation through it, and give us the kick sound!!!

4.) seems to have some kind of almost unbearable warble in the tone, as if an lfo is sloooooooowly modifying the pitch.

5.) like a real old spring reverb, it must be capable of being overdriven at the input and the output.

6.) stereo stereo stereo?

just trying to help make this plug a little better.

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:55 am

Hi Duncan,

Cool project. Tried out tonight in Audiomulch, and crashed when wiggling the Thickness control. Happened the first time but I couldn't repeat. Got this error:

VST Plugin Crash Information
File Name: C:\Program Files\Steinberg\Vstplugins\Sandbox\dsp SpringLine\SpringLine_Beta2.dll
File Size: 715264 bytes
File Creation Time: Tuesday, December 20, 2005, 3:50:02 AM
Exception Code: c0000005 (ACCESS_VIOLATION)
Fault Address: 0206D3DC 01:0007c3dc SpringLine_Beta2.dll
Fault Details: Read of address 020D3978
Thread Id: 1216 (audio thread)
VST Function : processReplacing
VST Function Parameters:
inputs: 027DFC0C outputs: 027DFC14 sampleframes: 256
Registers:
EAX: 020c64a4 EBX: 020c2398 ECX: 0000128c EDX: 020d3978 ESI: 01de70e0 EDI: 01de78e8
CS:EIP: 001b:0206d3dc SS:ESP: 0023:027df8f0 EBP: 027df8f4
DS: 0023 ES: 0023 FS: 003b GS: 0000
Flags: 00010216
Host Information:
AudioMulch Interactive Music Studio version 0.9b21
Build date: 20/9/2005

duncanparsons · Post by **duncanparsons** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:58 am

thx shamann, I'll look into it

Soundsubs - thx for the feedback. It is stereo! try panning a sound around it with the dry<->wet set to full wet and you'll see. I guess what you mean is a width control, which isn't a problem.

I do understand what you mean about the 'reverb' I guess you mean having more of a tail and some more complex interactions.. I do have that in mind, I wanted to get the initial boing about right first. I do have plans for a proper unit. Normally with a springline, it isn't just one spring (as this is modelling, or rather one per stereo channel); but a few either in parallel or daisy chained. My plan is to have 4 springs per channel, configurable in every combination of series and parallel. You do get some units with a single springs, but they're the really cheap ones!

Out of interest, would it be possible for you to record yours being knocked, or having a snare sample put through. If you could send me the dry sample, then the effected sound that would be great! The greater variety of sources I have the better - every unit has a slightly different sound due to age, how it's been treated, etc.

When out of beta, I did have an idea of being able to 'kick' the unit with varying amplitudes

And that warble is due to the chorus. It was better in beta one, the more I listen to it, the more I feel that the beta1 settings were better.

anyway, onward and upward

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:04 am

Just writing this post to remind me to do a demo of my Fender 65' Twin Reverb Reissue for you. If I get really ambitious I'll rip the spring tank out of the amp and try running it stand-alone, then I can get a pure-wet signal for you. Been meaning to try that since I got it, though I've been a bit worried about impedance mismatches... I guess I can put a couple A.R.T. Tube MPs (active direct boxes) between it and my audio interface, they'll provide an extra hot line level that I suspect the input will need, as well as protect my interface from possible damage. (In all liklihood it's probably safe, whatever the input impedance of the spring tank it won't be as bad as a short and I suspect the op amps in these devices are resilliant enough to survive even zero impedance for short periods of time. If I do fry a $70 Tube MP I'll live, but I'd be quite unhappy with myself if I toasted my $1000 UA-1000 so I want to play it safe.

)

Your friend who ripped the tank out of the organ drove it with line level signals successfully?

Will try this later today and get back to you.

FYI, here's the schematic of the amp:
http://www.fender.com/support/amp_schem ... df#E73.pdf

(How many products today come with THE PLANS? Gotta

it!)

P.S. Just tried Beta 2 and it's a big improvement! Keep going!!! I also know what the sound reminds me of now... a flanger with a very long delay time. You say you're incorporating a chorus-like effect so that might account for it. Tell me, is there an LFO modulating the chorus portion, or do you mod it purely from envelope follower? I think I'm hearing some regular LFO-like mod... up and down... there's nothing quite so regularly cyclic in the real-deal.

duncanparsons · Post by **duncanparsons** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:19 am

I don't know what my mate did with impedance matching etc, but I used to run mics through it alright, as well as using it as a send on my 4Track.. Was abit noisy, but that's only to be expected when doing that sort of thing!

If you did get me that sample, that would be marvelous, but don't go breaking stuff - I don't think I could handle that level of responsibilty!

DSP

SpringLine Reverb Model :: Now in the RoughDraftAudio labs!