piracy, again

[FaX]

Now all we need is a buttplug jewel case and no one else will believe how obscenely f**king good your new CD is .

[diverdee]

the last thing i would ever want to do with music is make money. I hope there's some folks on this thread that are with me.

I don't really understand that attitude.
You don't want to make money doing something creative that you (hopefully) enjoy doing, or maybe it's something you do as a form of catharsis, sameways.
Why?
Would you rather gain some kind of kudos (at least in your own mind) as a semi-tragic struggling artist type figure?
Is it a sour-grapes 'i'll prolly never make it anyway so i'll just take my bat & ball home now' type thing?
No accusations here, just don't understand it.
If I was offered money for some musical endeavour again (pretty unlikely at the moment) rather than droning on through my regular boring 9-5 i'd leap at the chance.
Friend of mine has just recently left work, another dude has invested some money in his studio & he's banging out remixes, mash-ups, doing jingles for radio - the business, all the time perfecting his craft & working on his own projects & investing time & money in his studio.
I've never seen the guy so happy, & it shows in his music also - i'm hoping he & the vocalist he is mainly working with have as much success as possible & will probably do some vocals with them - the guys lent me a mic, preamp & stand so that I can get some shit practised.
Don't get me wrong, the music that's personal to me (if I ever get it done) I couldn't care whether it would be commercially successful & making money or not as long as I actually get my act together & do it, but it would certainly be nice to be paid for it, especially if it meant I could concentrate more time on making music.
For me working & all the rest takes up so much time that it's hard getting in the music mood - when your getting paid, or have a nice tasty advance that shits taken care of (unless you blow it).

[kazaroval]

"Today a co-worker of mine liked my Norah Jones CD which was playing and asked if I could make a copy for him. I said, "No, I don't do that. That's piracy." "



Nice boy , you will go in heaven , once you die...

Norah jone is already in heaven.....thez make an album and have money that other hard woking people will never have in ther whole life....
it is fair?


all this buisness is shit!!!
its just money, money how to get more and more. if i want norah cd sure ill copy it, norah dont need my money, i need money, i dont need his music, but why not listen to it if it can please norah. Lot of people need money , a few have too much :/
MUsic should be FREE...

you are crazy and you are the dream of these shit peoples... the world is crazy...

pfff i want to learn english....

[Hink]

the last thing i would ever want to do with music is make money. I hope there's some folks on this thread that are with me.

I don't really understand that attitude.
You don't want to make money doing something creative that you (hopefully) enjoy doing, or maybe it's something you do as a form of catharsis, sameways.
Why?
Would you rather gain some kind of kudos (at least in your own mind) as a semi-tragic struggling artist type figure?
Is it a sour-grapes 'i'll prolly never make it anyway so i'll just take my bat & ball home now' type thing?
No accusations here, just don't understand it.
If I was offered money for some musical endeavour again (pretty unlikely at the moment) rather than droning on through my regular boring 9-5 i'd leap at the chance.
Friend of mine has just recently left work, another dude has invested some money in his studio & he's banging out remixes, mash-ups, doing jingles for radio - the business, all the time perfecting his craft & working on his own projects & investing time & money in his studio.
I've never seen the guy so happy, & it shows in his music also - i'm hoping he & the vocalist he is mainly working with have as much success as possible & will probably do some vocals with them - the guys lent me a mic, preamp & stand so that I can get some shit practised.
Don't get me wrong, the music that's personal to me (if I ever get it done) I couldn't care whether it would be commercially successful & making money or not as long as I actually get my act together & do it, but it would certainly be nice to be paid for it, especially if it meant I could concentrate more time on making music.
For me working & all the rest takes up so much time that it's hard getting in the music mood - when your getting paid, or have a nice tasty advance that shits taken care of (unless you blow it).

as explained in another thread, for me it's not if I want to, or not make money....like sharing music and recieving recognition, that is a reward...however the goal and the reward may not be the same. For me the goal is expression and joy, if I were to make money that would be the icing on the cake. But if I never made money it would not take away from me the pleasure, expression and inner peace I get from my music...that's my measure...did it do for me what I needed it to do? So far the answer is always yes....

[diverdee]

I agree there Hink - it is just nice to do it the process of making music & listening to & enjoying the end result is enough & if money is made that is indeed icing, gravy whatever.
I just don't understand someone straight out saying that they wouldn't want ot make money out of it.
It's not the goal (well I guess it is for some), but it sure is nice.

[DuX]

Just a short comment: you're all too materialistic. Music is art, so we all make money after we die .

[thomekk]

So, not buying albums is going to encourage labels and artists to spend MORE time on creating great albums or less? I think the answer is obvious.

That's an interesting thought! A naive thought-reply back:
On 1st sight the answer would be obvious.
But, hey how about being free from demanding contracts and bizpeople who don't give a shit about your work but urging you to take no artistic risk because then there won't be enough sales, so will you please... do what we say..?
So, 2nd thought: Acting/producing/composing without buyers/a contract means more "psychological strain" for any real artist - in the sense that he's doing what he's doing primarily for his own 1st. 'nd so he would produce brilliant music some people wpuld donate for (ok, that's not for sure

[Gargoyle]

So, not buying albums is going to encourage labels and artists to spend MORE time on creating great albums or less? I think the answer is obvious.

That's an interesting thought! A naive thought-reply back:
On 1st sight the answer would be obvious.
But, hey how about being free from demanding contracts and bizpeople who don't give a shit about your work but urging you to take no artistic risk because then there won't be enough sales, so will you please... do what we say..?

I agree, completely But that's not the original point. The original point was that the poor quality of music CDs was justification for not purchasing them. That doesn't sound to me like a solution, particularly as there is plenty of brilliant music out "there" (sites like this, podcasts etc) or in "here" (one's own head). There has to be more to it than that, and I have a hunch that "stealing" music is a way of participating in the commodification of music without actually having to make payment for doing so - that's all. If it really was a protest about commodification, then it wouldn't be desirable enough to "steal" or something that would be sought after for whatever reason...

So, 2nd thought: Acting/producing/composing without buyers/a contract means more "psychological strain" for any real artist - in the sense that he's doing what he's doing primarily for his own 1st. 'nd so he would produce brilliant music some people wpuld donate for (ok, that's not for sure

In an ideal world, yes, and it would be great - I would certainly like to run my own business on those lines, but unfortunately the providers I need in order to do that (electricity, food etc) don't seem to "get it"

Thanks for the reply

[Hink]

Just a short comment: you're all too materialistic. Music is art, so we all make money after we die .

I beg your pardon...I dont think anywhere anytime have I ever stated different, even my sig...

[dover666]

the last thing i would ever want to do with music is make money. I hope there's some folks on this thread that are with me.

I don't really understand that attitude.
You don't want to make money doing something creative that you (hopefully) enjoy doing, or maybe it's something you do as a form of catharsis, sameways.
Why?
Would you rather gain some kind of kudos (at least in your own mind) as a semi-tragic struggling artist type figure?
Is it a sour-grapes 'i'll prolly never make it anyway so i'll just take my bat & ball home now' type thing?
No accusations here, just don't understand it.
If I was offered money for some musical endeavour again (pretty unlikely at the moment) rather than droning on through my regular boring 9-5 i'd leap at the chance.
Friend of mine has just recently left work, another dude has invested some money in his studio & he's banging out remixes, mash-ups, doing jingles for radio - the business, all the time perfecting his craft & working on his own projects & investing time & money in his studio.
I've never seen the guy so happy, & it shows in his music also - i'm hoping he & the vocalist he is mainly working with have as much success as possible & will probably do some vocals with them - the guys lent me a mic, preamp & stand so that I can get some shit practised.
Don't get me wrong, the music that's personal to me (if I ever get it done) I couldn't care whether it would be commercially successful & making money or not as long as I actually get my act together & do it, but it would certainly be nice to be paid for it, especially if it meant I could concentrate more time on making music.
For me working & all the rest takes up so much time that it's hard getting in the music mood - when your getting paid, or have a nice tasty advance that shits taken care of (unless you blow it).

as explained in another thread, for me it's not if I want to, or not make money....like sharing music and recieving recognition, that is a reward...however the goal and the reward may not be the same. For me the goal is expression and joy, if I were to make money that would be the icing on the cake. But if I never made money it would not take away from me the pleasure, expression and inner peace I get from my music...that's my measure...did it do for me what I needed it to do? So far the answer is always yes....

I make music because it's the only thing i want to do. I spend a chunk on what toys i have, but I would only like to see MORE introverted solo artists. My music is very out there in comparison to the "mainstream". sometimes minimal etc. my point is is that my music is my headstate - past or present - an art that i'd only share with my close friends. I played in a metal band for a long time (10 yrs) and never felt like making the sound less real for any reason, least of all so other people could stand listening to it. yeah, I have seen people in my life get signed and bullshit - but i don't want the kids to dig it. I want to hear what i got out of me.
I'd rather get paid for building a stonewall....
Imagine doing that and not wanting to get paid for it? of course right now i work at a store... that ain't workin'....

[eduardo_b]

I agree there Hink - it is just nice to do it the process of making music & listening to & enjoying the end result is enough & if money is made that is indeed icing, gravy whatever.

I think money changes making music, and not necessarily for the better. Instead of doing it for one's self and not being concerned about whether anyone else likes it, the focus now becomes creating music that will attract people who will pay for it. The money may be nice to have -- assuming the label is willing to share enough of it, but it brings with it a whole set of expectations and demands. Not making money keeps it fun and simple.

[dystonia_ek]

the last thing i would ever want to do with music is make money. I hope there's some folks on this thread that are with me.

I don't really understand that attitude.
You don't want to make money doing something creative that you (hopefully) enjoy doing, or maybe it's something you do as a form of catharsis, sameways.
Why?

I think what he means is that when it becomes a job, there's not as much fun in it (especially with deadlines and people breathing down your neck), and it can easily become a grind like everything else - not saying 'don't give me money' per se.

[FTK]

Not buying albums isn't being a "smart consumer" it's completely degrading the album format. There's songs on some cd's that NEED the previous/next track feeding in or out of it to make its impact, picking and choosing the "hits" from places like itunes is pretty vulgar. Buying from itunes et al and dismissing hard copy formats in general is pretty fkucing disgusting also IMO. Think about it if you care.

Although, one could compose a whole new album, in which songs have different meanings when sequenced in a particular way. This is fun to do, like dj-ing

[FTK]

I wonder when the time will come where we'll be sued for remembering songs and humming them to ourselves in the shower

Actually, when i was in school, we were not allowed to cover more then 5 songs a year on performances/talentscouts etc. Anymore and the school had to pay a lot of money for that. (Not sure if i got the figures right, but something like that.) I'm talking about 13-17 year old kids, performing for their parents.

[Reverse Engineer]

Not buying albums isn't being a "smart consumer" it's completely degrading the album format. There's songs on some cd's that NEED the previous/next track feeding in or out of it to make its impact, picking and choosing the "hits" from places like itunes is pretty vulgar. Buying from itunes et al and dismissing hard copy formats in general is pretty fkucing disgusting also IMO. Think about it if you care.

Although, one could compose a whole new album, in which songs have different meanings when sequenced in a particular way. This is fun to do, like dj-ing

Done years ago.....Autechre and friends (under the guise of Gescom) released Minidisc http://www.discogs.com/release/43153 Apparently it's supposed to be listened to on random. thing is, it's complete shit whatever way you listen.....it's not glitch, just bollocks.