DTXpress III: Machine Gun Snares?

[geeseaplenty]

I want to indulge in an electric drum kit, but one thing is holding me back: lack of available info.

One thing that I love about drum VSTi soundsets like BFD and DFH is their multiple samples per each drum for realistic dynamics.

Does Yamaha's DTXpress III have this? Or is the snare sample for each kit, for instance, just one single shot sample? If so, that sucks. I don't want to sound like a machine gun!

[doogs]

I have a DTXpress I and it has two velocity layers on each drum. The internal sounds are pretty lame and dated. I'm pretty sure the DTXpress III is the same, maybe not so dated. You can do some tricks by adding modulation to the samples but it's really not going to compete with the sound of something like BFD.

You can connect the DTXpress to the PC via midi and use the nice sounds of your VSTi's. You need to get everything running at low latency otherwise playing in time is impossible.

Each pad will send a full range of velocity values. The midi note information sent from each pad is configurable so you match the configuration of your VSTi drum module. You can assign pads to send program changes as well. You can assign alternate notes to pads so they send two notes each time they are hit, or alternate between notes.

You can even program a midi sequence into the unit and assign it to a single pad. You can then set the pad to loop the sequenece when you hit it, or alternatively each time you play the pad the next note in the sequnce will play. You can use these features creatively to get more variation in the sound from a single pad.

[geeseaplenty]

I have a DTXpress I and it has two velocity layers on each drum. The internal sounds are pretty lame and dated. I'm pretty sure the DTXpress III is the same, maybe not so dated. You can do some tricks by adding modulation to the samples but it's really not going to compete with the sound of something like BFD.

You can connect the DTXpress to the PC via midi and use the nice sounds of your VSTi's. You need to get everything running at low latency otherwise playing in time is impossible.

Each pad will send a full range of velocity values. The midi note information sent from each pad is configurable so you match the configuration of your VSTi drum module. You can assign pads to send program changes as well. You can assign alternate notes to pads so they send two notes each time they are hit, or alternate between notes.

You can even program a midi sequence into the unit and assign it to a single pad. You can then set the pad to loop the sequenece when you hit it, or alternatively each time you play the pad the next note in the sequnce will play. You can use these features creatively to get more variation in the sound from a single pad.

I was afraid of that. That really sucks that these hardware units can only manage two velocity layers per drum. There's no way I'd sink that kind of money into a kit with that paltry offering.

Hell, just give me one kit with tons of velocity layers instead of 48 weak kits. Idiotic.

[Failed Muso]

Each pad can send the full 128 velocity layers, so it all depends on your sound generator and whether it can replay 128 layers. I use my DTX with a combination of the Yamaha brain and my Akai samplers. If I have a sample set that has a snare sample with 128 layers, I can get those 128 layers on my DTX. When Doogs said they have two velocity layers I think he was referring to the zones on the pads i.e Centre of pad and Rim, which allows you to assign two programs per pad.

The layers are determined by the sound generator. The Yamaha brain won't be that great, but you can hook the pads up to any sound generator via MIDI and get the maximum layers you require.

Don't dismiss them so readily. Get to understand the technology and go try some out. You'll be pleasantly surprised.

If you want the ultimate electronic drum experience, Yamaha's DTXtreme and Roland's V-Drums with the mesh heads are difficult to beat (excuse the pun), but then the prices are much higher.

In my experience, electronic kits are more expensive but ultimately more flexible.

[geeseaplenty]

Each pad can send the full 128 velocity layers, so it all depends on your sound generator and whether it can replay 128 layers. I use my DTX with a combination of the Yamaha brain and my Akai samplers. If I have a sample set that has a snare sample with 128 layers, I can get those 128 layers on my DTX. When Doogs said they have two velocity layers I think he was referring to the zones on the pads i.e Centre of pad and Rim, which allows you to assign two programs per pad.

The layers are determined by the sound generator. The Yamaha brain won't be that great, but you can hook the pads up to any sound generator via MIDI and get the maximum layers you require.

Don't dismiss them so readily. Get to understand the technology and go try some out. You'll be pleasantly surprised.

If you want the ultimate electronic drum experience, Yamaha's DTXtreme and Roland's V-Drums with the mesh heads are difficult to beat (excuse the pun), but then the prices are much higher.

In my experience, electronic kits are more expensive but ultimately more flexible.

Well I just wanted to keep things simple by having one brain (the DTX) and the pads.

It sounds nice to have a bunch of Akai samplers slaved to the Yamaha, but I want to avoid that spaghetti and just play!

So, tell me, how realistic are the internal sounds on the DTXpress? Is it more than two samples per zone? That's what I meant by "paltry." I don't care how rich and throaty a snare sample is; if there are only two hits per zone, then I'll get the machine gun effect I so badly want to avoid.

Thanks for the input. I'm still doing research to find the simplest solution.

[splattabreakz]

blah

[Failed Muso]

Try this site....

DTXpressions

Plenty of info there.

I need to correct myself a bit as well. Doogs was probably referring to the layers as defined within the realms of the DTXpress which allows you to layer two voices per pad. Each of those voices can respond to a velocity value between 0-127.

There is room for a lot of experimentation and some good results can be achieved, even with just the supplied "brain". I used to use mine out live and never had that "machine gun" effect you speak of. True, they're not a real set of drums, but that's a bit feckin' obvious

They had enough nuance to be expressive and certainly paid for themselves in the studio environment.

I won't hold my breath for the "snareringcomb effect"

[geeseaplenty]

you're never gonna avoid the machine gun even with like infinite samples cos it just doesn't replace the dynamic sound of building resonance... which comes from the shell... so until someone impliments my snareringcomb effect they will always sound like machine guns... if you're doing 16thhs on the snare or whatever that ith.

Sorry, but this just isn't true. Playing DFH 1 on my keyboard controller, I can achieve realistic, non-machine gun 16th note rolls on the snare with the left- and right-handed snare samples.

And that's with DFH 1! Imagine DFH 2 or BFD. But I digress...

[geeseaplenty]

Try this site....

DTXpressions

Plenty of info there.

I need to correct myself a bit as well. Doogs was probably referring to the layers as defined within the realms of the DTXpress which allows you to layer two voices per pad. Each of those voices can respond to a velocity value between 0-127.

There is room for a lot of experimentation and some good results can be achieved, even with just the supplied "brain". I used to use mine out live and never had that "machine gun" effect you speak of. True, they're not a real set of drums, but that's a bit feckin' obvious

They had enough nuance to be expressive and certainly paid for themselves in the studio environment.

I won't hold my breath for the "snareringcomb effect"

Thanks Lovesign. You've been very helpful with your advice and links!

[splattabreakz]

blah

[Failed Muso]

don't be sorry for it not being true, be sorry for being wrong.

Full of yourself, aren't you

honestly, you just cant recreate the sound of a snare with samples...

I don't think it was ever claimed that you could

cos a snare doesnt sound the same hit once as it does hit many times in succession. theres resonance that builds in side the shell which will create more of a wash...

having said that, for most fills in most music getting made with these drum libs today, once its in the mix with all the other instruments most people wouldnt notice...

Especially if they're 24bit/96KHz

just sad drummers like me. :p

You make it too easy

[splattabreakz]

blah

[Failed Muso]

wise guy eh?

Yup

anyway i wanna hear what you do with your dtxpresss biotch, got mp3s? :p

Not unless you pay for them

My clients are all happy

[geeseaplenty]

you're never gonna avoid the machine gun even with like infinite samples cos it just doesn't replace the dynamic sound of building resonance... which comes from the shell... so until someone impliments my snareringcomb effect they will always sound like machine guns... if you're doing 16thhs on the snare or whatever that ith.

Sorry, but this just isn't true. Playing DFH 1 on my keyboard controller, I can achieve realistic, non-machine gun 16th note rolls on the snare with the left- and right-handed snare samples.

And that's with DFH 1! Imagine DFH 2 or BFD. But I digress...

don't be sorry for it not being true, be sorry for being wrong.

honestly, you just cant recreate the sound of a snare with samples... cos a snare doesnt sound the same hit once as it does hit many times in succession. theres resonance that builds in side the shell which will create more of a wash...

having said that, for most fills in most music getting made with these drum libs today, once its in the mix with all the other instruments most people wouldnt notice...

just sad drummers like me. :p

Well a Steve Smith snare solo would be hard to pull off, granted, but I can easily create a realistic one bar snare fill with six velocity level samples per snare hand (DFH 1). Now include all the hard hit snare samples that also come with that library, and it's fairly simple to fool anyone--even without relying on the other instruments mask it.

[splattabreakz]

blah