The Sample Devellopers Adress Book

[hollowsun]

Hollow Sun
http://www.hollowsun.com
Maybe not the most orginal sample develloper

Eh?? That's a little harsh....

Especially when a few posts earlier you said:

Dangerous Bear Underground
http://www.dangerousbear.com
Their Hollow Sun classic synths refill (also available in soundfont format) is quite simply amazing!

Something of a contradiction there. Odd that I can be both unoriginal and amazing simultaneously!

Curious as well that you view the sounds I develop as unoriginal when some of my collections feature instruments that have rarely (or ever) been sampled or are not quite 'mainstream' or, if they are, are badly represented in other collections with insufficient multi-samples, bad (or no) looping, poor programming and editing, etc..

I don't think you have purchased any of my CD products (can't see you in my customer database unless you buy under a different name) so I am puzzled how you have come to your less than flaterring conclusion.

Similarly (I suspect) you have not purchased the products from the other developers you list. Listing developers is one thing; passing comment and/or adding critique when you have not heard the full extent of their work is another.


Steve

[SampleScience]

Steve,

Your collection are good & usefull, they are perfectly edited mapped & everything. But the choice of instruments & the type of sounds are not what I call the most original comparing to say Zvon's experimental soundfonts or other companies who brings new concept in sampling technologies (like Spectrasonics or SampleLab). That doesn't mean that your library & patches are bad & cannot be use or that I don't like them, I'm just saying that samplig analog synth in a conventional way is not what I call 'original'.

Just like making an acoustic drum loops cd isn't what I would call 'original', doesn't mean the loops are bad or useless.

Don't want to be hard here, just want to be honest

[Failed Muso]

Steve,

Your collection are good & usefull, they are perfectly edited mapped & everything. But the choice of instruments & the type of sounds are not what I call the most original comparing to say Zvon's experimental soundfonts or other companies who brings new concept in sampling technologies (like Spectrasonics or SampleLab). That doesn't mean that your library & patches are bad & cannot be use or that I don't like them, I'm just saying that samplig analog synth in a conventional way is not what I call 'original'.

Just like making an acoustic drum loops cd isn't what I would call 'original', doesn't mean the loops are bad or useless.

Don't want to be hard here, just want to be honest

But do you own any of the HS CD's ?

[Bassballjg]

Steve,

Your collection are good & usefull, they are perfectly edited mapped & everything. But the choice of instruments & the type of sounds are not what I call the most original comparing to say Zvon's experimental soundfonts or other companies who brings new concept in sampling technologies (like Spectrasonics or SampleLab). That doesn't mean that your library & patches are bad & cannot be use or that I don't like them, I'm just saying that samplig analog synth in a conventional way is not what I call 'original'.

Just like making an acoustic drum loops cd isn't what I would call 'original', doesn't mean the loops are bad or useless.

Don't want to be hard here, just want to be honest

I would first like to thank you for what I think is a good-faith effort on your part to promote sample developers, and for your kind words about my company and our presets for the Hollow Sun material in formats that Steve does not cover, such as Reason, ST2 and WusikSND. I sincerely believe that his and my arrangement has been mutually benificial to ourselves and to the sample user community. But that is why I cannot agree with your assesment of Steve's work and products, while recognizing your perfectly legitmite right to like or not like any samples you wish, or define "originaity" any way you care to.

Steve himself and Lovesign have defended the Hollow Sun collection and cd series well so I will simply offer my concurrence in their remarks, especially those of Lovesign in calling Steve arguably the original sample developer. I really don't think that people often enough appreciate how important his career has been to the foundation of the sample development industry and therefore to electronic music generally.

Furthermore, with regard to the issue of "originality", what the Hollow Sun library offers is not just an evocation of the classic instruments it samples, but by putting those sounds into a form useable by today's powerful soft-synth engines, the classics may be reimagined as a hybrid of the old and new. Something totally unique, such as the dBu WusikEngine libraries that use Hollow Sun sounds. The high-quality samples of great instruments you get from Hollow Sun add chracter to any soft synth/sampler you put them in. And sonic character, plus good recording and looping will always stand out from the crowd. Beyond this I will just let his work, in the NI engine rompler, dBu libraries, and the Hollow Sun discs speak for itself.

I will further take issue with your statement about loops. You have decried the proliferation of illegal samples from records, which I would also denounce for their unoriginality. What better antidote to this than collections of live-played drum loops? Indeed, what could be more ethical and more musically original than a real musician playing his/her instrument to create royalty-free loops? For those who are either beat-programming challenged and/or lacking access to drummers, such loops are a Godsend.

That is why dBu has abandoned entirely sales and development of programmed beatloops, and undertaken the development of two series of ongoing beatloop performance projects: Endangered Rhythms by Herodotus, and Dangerous Grooves by Johan Rucker. I don't know if you know the freeware by either of these drummers, but their work is among the most musically unique available to the loop using composer. And both series will be expanding in volume and into new formats an a major way in 2006.

I'm aware that you weren't attacking the quality of these products, however, originality can be seen in more than one way. It may not be original to sample an analog synth, but the settings programmed into the synth may indeed be original, and that is then a new and unique waveform (original) to be further processed with your synth engine into a new and unique (original) preset patch. Thus it is that I made the point that the classics Hollow Sun provides become the materials of which new and unique sounds (originality) are created.

And again, what is more "original" than a drummer playing a beat? That's the source of all the sampled beats off records, a drummer playing. Sure there are certain basic beats that have always existed, but a good drummer has a vibe and feel all his own, and may create new and unique (original) patterns.

But more important is the creativity of the user, what will he or she do with the samples in their collection? Will they use the samples to create new and unique (original) music? That is the originalty I care about. I'm just glad to be working with people like Steve, Herodotus and Johan to give musicians tools they can use.

[hollowsun]

But the choice of instruments & the type of sounds are not what I call the most original comparing to say Zvon's experimental soundfonts or other companies who brings new concept in sampling technologies (like Spectrasonics or SampleLab).

Which is why I leave them to do that kind of stuff while I concentrate on doing what I do best - bringing authentic reproductions of certain 'vintage' instruments to the market (in much the same way as, say, Garritan, focus on bringing orchestral samples to the market - equally 'unoriginal' it could be argued ). I could do all sorts of things but the market is pretty much covered (Jeeeezzzz.... do we need yet another piano?!) so, I leave it to those people with the resources to do so and I focus on what I do best.

If you'd purchased any of my CDs, as well as a broad range of sounds unlike you'd find elsewhere (pads to rival Spacehawk's for example), you'd find 'originality' in the fact that the sounds on them are all seamlessly looped with a small footprint that won't hog your memory or storage space or croak your CPU - that's gotta be pretty unique in these bloatware days

Don't want to be hard here, just want to be honest

Dunno how you can be if you have not heard everything on offer. Same goes for any other comments you might have about other developers.

Steve

[hollowsun]

Bela-D Media (http://www.beladmedia.com) is conspicuous by its absence from your list. Killer products.


Steve

[SampleScience]

Bela-D Media (http://www.beladmedia.com) is conspicuous by its absence from your list. Killer products.


Steve

Completly forgot about them!

I have listed on paper more than 40 companies! It's incredible the amount of sample developers that sells sounds.

To answer Lovesign question I do have the Vintage Collection downloaded for free when it was available. I hope you won't make negative assumptions about myself just because I didn't buy anything from Hollow Sun... I work full time & sometimes buy disc from sample cd companies (Big Fish Audio, Power FX, Drumdrops), I prefer to buy them in local music shops because I get my sounds immediatly. So I don't have any internet-only sample cds yet. But soon I'll look for stuff from Peace Love Productions because I've bought the M42 Nebula & the process went well (I was a little bit afraid that my cheque get lost in mail & fall in the wrong hands!). So that's it.

To Bassballjg: I think it's sad you're dropping your electronic drum loops collection, I always thought the more choice the better but anyways, I've found that the free sf2 slice kits where fun to play with. Any chance of release them free on the FreeSoundProject website?

[Radjo]

Hi

i did not see listed in that list 2 of the BEST Sample developers out there at this time - my favorites anyways:

Manytone - www.manytone.com (Great guitars and basses and other high quality samples)
SonicReality - www.sonicreality.com (All kinds of interesting real instruments)

Both of these companies make awesome samples.
Radjo

[hollowsun]

To answer Lovesign question I do have the Vintage Collection downloaded for free when it was available.

A small tip of the iceberg compared with the Hollow Sun CD releases.

Steve

[Distorted_Mastermind]

This has been a funny thread.

[SampleScience]

...

[Failed Muso]

Sounds to me like someone had way too much time on their hands on Boxing Day

[SampleScience]

Sounds to me like someone had way too much time on their hands on Boxing Day

exactly!