guitar necks - differences between bolted and set-neck

[egbert]

that page i mentioned:

http://www.cyberessays.com/Arts/35.htm

Spot the obvious mistakes:

There are two main versions of a pick-up: a single rail, and a humbucker. There are many versions of each kind. A single rail pick-up has six bar magnets used to read the sound. They have a very bright sound.

The Humbucker pick-up was invented by Seymour Duncan to eliminate the fuzz that was prominent in older Single rail pick-ups. They are twice as wide as single rails. They contain a single wire that is wrapped around two sets of six magnets. The wire is used to stop the buzzing (or "buck the hum" as Seymour said it).

[Amberience]

im not much of a guitar techie or historian, so im not sure of any corrections...

[Stupid American Pig]

the humbucker was invented by a gibson employee and his name was *not* seymour duncan....

[egbert]

the humbucker was invented by a gibson employee and his name was *not* seymour duncan....

The Gibson P. A. F. (patent applied for) humbucking pickup was introduced in the 1950s and for the 17 years that the patent ran NOBODY but Gibson could sell double pole pickups. If you broke one you had to return the old one to Gibson before you could get a new replacement as they did not sell the pickups separately or licence the design.

The patent ran out in the early seventies and Dimazio and Seymour Duncan and other firms - eg the various clone makers like Ibanez - were able to supply DP pickups or guitars with DP pickups. Great the way intellectual property works huh?

That "explanation" of how humbucking works is hilarious too. Sounds like he went to MIT. I wonder if he has done a page on brain surgery.

[Hink]

FWIW inventing the humbucker is not accurate, the principal behind the humbucker was nothing new. Gibson was the first to apply it to pick-ups...but to say one person invented it isn't painting an accurate picture. I reckon that it was a group idea to apply it to a pick-up.

As far as the neck through body and all...it does make a difference in sustain and if there were no other variables it would make a bigger difference. Wood materials, pick-up choice, pole piece height, string gauge, string material, material for bridges and fretting technique also play a huge factor (many people say that a brass nut makes a big difference...but face it that only really applies when the strings are open). So as much as neck through does effect the sound it's not the only way to do it and other changes can also do te same thing and even the same guitar in different hands will sound different

[Stupid American Pig]

FWIW inventing the humbucker is not accurate, the principal behind the humbucker was nothing new. Gibson was the first to apply it to pick-ups...but to say one person invented it isn't painting an accurate picture. I reckon that it was a group idea to apply it to a pick-up.

Well when you look at it that way, nobody really "invents" anything, they just learn and apply principles of physics that existed since the beginning of time before anyone else.

[Amberience]

er... the wheel???

[Hink]

FWIW inventing the humbucker is not accurate, the principal behind the humbucker was nothing new. Gibson was the first to apply it to pick-ups...but to say one person invented it isn't painting an accurate picture. I reckon that it was a group idea to apply it to a pick-up.

Well when you look at it that way, nobody really "invents" anything, they just learn and apply principles of physics that existed since the beginning of time before anyone else.

in a way you're right, but this is just so basic a concept it would be like saying I invented the battery because I put it in the first flashlight. Notice that the first humbuckers carried the name P.A.F....I doubt Gibson gets royalties for every humbucker sold...

[egbert]

FWIW inventing the humbucker is not accurate, the principal behind the humbucker was nothing new. Gibson was the first to apply it to pick-ups...but to say one person invented it isn't painting an accurate picture. I reckon that it was a group idea to apply it to a pick-up.

When has an idea ever occured to a group? In a group discussion about a problem the idea for the solution always occurs to one person first. Somebody at Gibson came up with the solution. It is true that cancelling noise by summing the noise signal with its inverse was not original. Something like this happens in a twisted pair phone cable - prior art I suspect.

The other thing I guess is that saying that "the magnets read the sound" is a bit of an over-simplification - the motion of the magnetic material in the strings in the magnetic field of the magnets induces a current in the coil of any magnetic pickup.

[Stupid American Pig]

FWIW inventing the humbucker is not accurate, the principal behind the humbucker was nothing new. Gibson was the first to apply it to pick-ups...but to say one person invented it isn't painting an accurate picture. I reckon that it was a group idea to apply it to a pick-up.

Well when you look at it that way, nobody really "invents" anything, they just learn and apply principles of physics that existed since the beginning of time before anyone else.

in a way you're right, but this is just so basic a concept it would be like saying I invented the battery because I put it in the first flashlight. Notice that the first humbuckers carried the name P.A.F....I doubt Gibson gets royalties for every humbucker sold...

Mebbe so, I was only half serious anyway. I cant let yer forum experience here be too easy now can I

[Stupid American Pig]

FWIW inventing the humbucker is not accurate, the principal behind the humbucker was nothing new. Gibson was the first to apply it to pick-ups...but to say one person invented it isn't painting an accurate picture. I reckon that it was a group idea to apply it to a pick-up.

When has an idea ever occured to a group? In a group discussion about a problem the idea for the solution always occurs to one person first. Somebody at Gibson came up with the solution. It is true that cancelling noise by summing the noise signal with its inverse was not original. Something like this happens in a twisted pair phone cable - prior art I suspect.

The other thing I guess is that saying that "the magnets read the sound" is a bit of an over-simplification - the motion of the magnetic material in the strings in the magnetic field of the magnets induces a current in the coil of any magnetic pickup.

Yeah that was a pretty poor choice of words. Pickups dont read anything, they just generate electricity

[Hink]

FWIW inventing the humbucker is not accurate, the principal behind the humbucker was nothing new. Gibson was the first to apply it to pick-ups...but to say one person invented it isn't painting an accurate picture. I reckon that it was a group idea to apply it to a pick-up.

When has an idea ever occured to a group? In a group discussion about a problem the idea for the solution always occurs to one person first. Somebody at Gibson came up with the solution. It is true that cancelling noise by summing the noise signal with its inverse was not original. Something like this happens in a twisted pair phone cable - prior art I suspect.

The other thing I guess is that saying that "the magnets read the sound" is a bit of an over-simplification - the motion of the magnetic material in the strings in the magnetic field of the magnets induces a current in the coil of any magnetic pickup.

tbh it was probably a crafty guitar player who put two single coil pick-ups together...likely that caught the attention of Gibson...but I doubt that one person was the first to do so.

Take how I wire my 5-way...instead of typical I wire it bridge>bridge+neck>neck>neck+middle>middle...did I invent that? I did it 10 years at least ago...was I the only one? I know for a fact the answer is no because someone I never knew until I came here does the same thing.

That's what I mean by it was a group decision, no Gibson employee invented it, he just suggested it as a solution and Gibson applied the principle.

I'm not sure what you mean by your second post, it really doesn't make sense too me....if you're saying pole piece heght doesn't make a difference, I'm not going to debat it...it does, but I just don't feel like debating it...just like the type of magnet makes a difference. As does the windings, whether or not the pick-up is potted.

My point is that I can get plenty of sustain out of any guitar by pick-up choice just as easily. Yeah a neck-through is cool, but is it cool enough and drastic enough to justify the price difference?

[egbert]

Take how I wire my 5-way...instead of typical I wire it bridge>bridge+neck>neck>neck+middle>middle...did I invent that? I did it 10 years at least ago...was I the only one? I know for a fact the answer is no because someone I never knew until I came here does the same thing.

Ok - interesting approach. I have a Strat with EMGs and a pull pot on the volume knob which adds the bridge P/U so the first three positions become [Neck+ Bridge, Neck+middle+bridge, and Middle+Bridge] when the pot is out. I also have a phase switcher which means I can reverse the phase of the neck p/u in any of those combinations - flicking the phase switch really cancels the fundamental and effectively thins out the sound of Neck+Bridge and Neck + Middle.

I'm not sure what you mean by your second post, it really doesn't make sense too me....if you're saying pole piece heght doesn't make a difference

Yes of course it matters - change any parameter in that system - magnetic field strength, number of turns on the coils etc - you get a different response. A magnet does jack on its own besides pull the string out of tune

[Hink]

Ok - interesting approach. I have a Strat with EMGs

Good choice me too...one strat has an 81 and an 89 one has an 81 and an 85...in the strat with the 89, that has the 5-way, I have in the middle a stock fender single coil..btw I also have a PA2 in every guitar...

[james0tucson]

My Epiphone SG (set neck) has amazing sustain. It does not have the best tone of any guitar I've ever played, and I've kept the original pickups, but the intonation is perfect and, like I said, the sustain is rich, every bit as good as a PRS. And this is an *Epi*. A cheap guitar by anybody's standards. Love it, and will never part with it.