Do you play an Instrument

[opia]

This topic came up at work the other day, some one said that people who use computers to make music are not musicians, I say it's not true.....

someone I work with said that dogs can understand english

discuss

[John Vulich]

This topic came up at work the other day, some one said that people who use computers to make music are not musicians, I say it's not true.....

someone I work with said that dogs can understand english

discuss

It depends on the Dog's Nationality I would suppose.

[ross g]

"composer" seems to imply something that i for one don't feel comfortable calling myself...i think people who make music are musicians, people who play instruments "play instruments", i guess when you get good enough you are an instrumentalist....as far as loops and such, i remember when i was able to make a few bucks using a sampler, a computer, a SFX library, a little live playing and custom SFX, and perhaps in the long run a session horn player lost work...in the same light, all the license free music loops available to web site guys was a nail in the coffin for my old job perhaps (it sure didn't help)...but earlier than that, as soon as tascam and others manufactured inexpensive recording equipment, someone was able to make music they mmay not have been able to make before, it snowballed over the years with synths, samplers, midi, daws, etc...but the thing that seperates the crap from the good stuff is talent, and it will always be that way regradless of the technology...a loop might fit in here and there but it seems everyone is still sampling the old stuff, isn't that a clue to the real nature of the issue in itself?

the first time i saw P-Funk they played the song that De La Soul sampled on "Me Myself and I" and for a moment i was thinking "why are they playing this song"(i hadn't heard the original before and i still don't know the name of it) ...once i understood that it was a P-Funk tune, i felt gipped in a way...the hook, the part that got the record buying publics' attention, and had them humming along and bobbing their heads, wasn't an original, creative idea...it was a clever use of a "loop" and put together well with the song, but De la Soul wasn't able to follow up on it with a second hit...hip hop/rap is perhaps the most popular music form today, but you'll notice that the "producers" are the ones who really seem to make hits, and the good ones make careers for themselves...i still hold Public Enemy up as the watermark of creative use of sampling in hip hop (like others in my age/race/musical taste backround seem to, i ain't up on all the newer stuff)

whatever...

[headquest]

I had the full classical training: studied piano, flute and harpsichord, ending up at the Royal College of Music London. Recently I got a Theremin and am trying to pick that up too.

In spite of coming from that background it really irritates me when musical snobs dismiss people who create music using loops, etc. That attitude displays not only an intolerence to others, but more to the point an ignorance and failure to critically analyse the musical process.

I think that creating music on the computer (loop based or otherwise) actually uses many of the same skills as playing an instrument. Creating music is - either way - essentially about controlling sounds.

I also find that when I teach students to play the keyboard/piano they develop lots of musical skills that transfer over to computer based music production. This especially relates to developing aural skills, an understanding of music theory, as well as a good sense of timing and an intuitive sense of musical struture and form.

While many of you here will appreciate the truth of that, it saddens me to say that most of my classical musican friends and colleagues have no comprehension of this issue. The extent of the musical snobbery and prejudice demonstrated by some of these people is most deeply ironic when you remember that electronic music initially emerged within the classical music tradition through the works of Varese, Stokhausen et al.

I find it really exciting that programs such as Ableton are now blurring the distinction between computer music production and live musical performance. I think that this trend points to a future where there will be better understanding and acceptance of electronic music in general, and all of us who have an interest in the stuff discussed here will find our musical output better valued.

As things are though, in my experience computer based musicians rarely show anything other than respect for instrumental players, while many instrumental players unfortunately don't return the same respect. Let's all hope this changes!

[dover666]

brief list of instruments i've spent the past few yaers learning (some over a decade... guitar almost 20 yrs...) - guitar, bass, drums (classical, jazz, punk, blues, metal, swing etc...), piano, organ, trombone, and then all the crap i've grabbed that's in some "other" catagory.... of course i would consider myself a composer... I'd rather do a Swing/Grindcore improv set in a backroom of a farmhouse than ANYTHING ELSE - that includes eating, sleeping, getting laid... etc...

[AsianCarol]

I play drums,guitar(solo/lead),bassguitar,keyboards and pedal-steelguitar.Also tried to play the saxophone for a while,but that didn't work out very well.....got cramps in my tongue,and couldn't speak for days.... .

[M'Snah]

Just like every kid or dummy can create nice sounds using the presets of e.g.. Zebra II or Albino II or ManyGuitar or Wusikstation 1/2/3, the same person can create nice sounds using loops. Still someone who creates a good song using loops (not just dumping them in the host) is just as much an artist as someone who write songs using any other instruments... It's just more efficient, using bars/measures at a time instead of single notes (or chords).

To reply to the original question: Without formal musical education, I've played guitar and electronic organ for about 25 years (maybe even 26), piano for 15 years, and I tend to get decent sounds out of every instrument that I get in my hands.
My latest achievements are understanding how synths work (that was one of my personal goals for 2005) and understanding how musical creation with loops works (one of my goals for Q1 2006), and using a modwheel .

[BONES]

While many of you here will appreciate the truth of that, it saddens me to say that most of my classical musican friends and colleagues have no comprehension of this issue.

You should get them to sit down in front of Cubase and see what they can get out of it in a week.

There're two types of musicians. There are performers and there are composers. Some composers double as performers and some performers double as composers. Being strictly a composer doesn't make a person any less of a musician, it just means they choose to focus their talents on writing music as opposed to playing it.

Well I'd classify myself very much as a performer but I am one of only two people who so far has admitted to not being able to play an instrument. Strange.

[AsianCarol]

I play drums,guitar(solo/lead),bassguitar,keyboards and pedal-steelguitar.I also tried the saxophone some years ago,but i really got bad cramps in my tongue,and i couldn't speak for days.... A lot of people were very happy at that time....

[stanlea]

Drums, percussion, voice, bassguitar. Writing lyrics in French/English, composing.

[Laguna Rising]

I play bass and guitar. Not really skilled on keyboards...

Cheers

[hvaring]

30+ years of saxophones and double/electric bass. I dabble in keyboards by necessity, I really couldn't make computer music without basic keyboard skills. My guitar playing sucks, but it's usable for background stuff.

[headquest]

There're two types of musicians. There are performers and there are composers. Some composers double as performers and some performers double as composers. Being strictly a composer doesn't make a person any less of a musician, it just means they choose to focus their talents on writing music as opposed to playing it.

The distinction between composer and performer is largely an artificial divide perpetuated by faulty education.

To look at it historically almost all the great classical composers were first and foremost performing instrumentalists. Furthermore, jazz composition is the preserve of performers, and this is also largely true in rock and popular music too.

The problem arises because from early in the twentieth century, classical instrumental pedagogy begun to preclude composition, and segregate it as an entirely seperate skill. This narrow approach was a mistake that has led to a situation where many trained instrumentalists do not believe they have the ability to improvise or compose.

Thankfully through the work of researchers such as Professor Keith Swanick, music educational methodology is now changing, and teachers are realising the powerful benefits of an integrated approach to teaching performing and composing as one package. However, there still remains the difficulty that many teachers did not themselves learn this way though, so feel out of their depth.

From my own teaching experiences I have come to believe that any sensitive musician who performs well can also, given the right encouragement, both improvise and compose fabulous music. Conversely, I believe that those who have learnt - using technology - to compose good music would also excell as players given the opportunity and correct education. Within this though we also need to broaden our understanding of "instruments" and "playing" to include the full range of musical-sound-making devices, including the wide range of electronic sound generating sources.

[waiting man]

me rude skinbeater.

[topaz]

I play

Bass, guitars, keyboards, Duduk, Zurna, Shvi, Shehnai, Pungi, Xaphoons.

tell your friends they know nuttin.