tools don't matter

[nuffink]

Well with music you gotta have a balance (for the kind of music I like).. I like to hear quality timbre in my music, and that sometimes requires expensive/rare gear. I like hearing a quality synth or reverb. But actual composition of a tune is equally important. Its all about the overall mood. Balance is the key.

That's quite a sad post.
I'm not having a pop specifically at you AudioWhore. You've just articulated an attitude that's all to common on KvR. The idea that timbre is as important as composition. It never has been. It never will be.
There is a fundamental difference between sound and music, and all the synth widdling and expensive kit in the world won't change that.

It depends on the kind of music you are talking about. Music that fits your category is, by and large, music that I find all but totally ineffectual. The kind of music that I like certainly depends at least as much on timbre as it does on composition, possibly more.

Yeah, I know.

[Sascha Franck]

Just found this thread. Thanks for the link, kuniklo, very nice read. And some great links to great photographs, too.

[hoffy]

umm. i want something to blow me away sonically as much as the music itself. Pet Sounds may be full of great songs, but i'm rarely going to listen to it because it sounds like dirt.

[Amberience]

You mean it sounds shit so you rarely listen to it, or you mean it sounding like dirt isn't a good reason to listen to it?

Either way... I agree to a certain extent. Sonic qualities are important. But I think they should serve the music, not the other way round.

I'm finding as I get older I'm tending to care less about cool sounds - rarely if ever do I put on Autechre or Aphex Twin anymore because of this.

I'm not really into experimenting for experimentations sake anymore.

[Cyprus]

Well with music you gotta have a balance (for the kind of music I like).. I like to hear quality timbre in my music, and that sometimes requires expensive/rare gear. I like hearing a quality synth or reverb. But actual composition of a tune is equally important. Its all about the overall mood. Balance is the key.

That's quite a sad post.
I'm not having a pop specifically at you AudioWhore. You've just articulated an attitude that's all to common on KvR. The idea that timbre is as important as composition. It never has been. It never will be.
There is a fundamental difference between sound and music, and all the synth widdling and expensive kit in the world won't change that.

That's just too general of a statement. Yes, composition is certainly the most important part of music, it is like the script to a movie, but then you have the instruments which are like the actors, and depending on how good those actors are it could very well change how people perceive that script.

That's not a justification for the constant pursuits of "better" gear, but even from my experience when I have that tone that I'm looking for I play better as a musician. Plus depending on what I'm using certainly I can see a difference in perception of the way people receive my music.

There are just so many factors involved, but the fact is, gear and composition matters. Even if composition is by far the most important factor...like a script.

[Sascha Franck]

I once was told that a good song should work on an acoustic guitar alone. Over the years I got rid of that stoopit idea. Sounds are important to me. They do inspire me. With different sounds I do different things. "Good" Sounds (sounds that do work for me) are fuel to my creativity.

I think that's beyond the point.
Almost everybody (probably Ken Rockwell as well) would agree with that.

But IMO there's two things to consider:
- Could you make some great music with a reduced number of tools (or be inspired)?
- Does searching for the optimum tool get in your way sometimes?

I could answer both questions with yes.
I've been as creative (probably even more) when I had a way more limited set of options.
And yes (especially since I'm betatesting quite some stuff), wishing for perfect tools does get in my way sometimes.

At the same time I do enjoy things getting better and better.

Contradiction? Sort of, yes. But I actually do like both sides of the coin. Fortunately, my socalled "career" does allow for both. Sometimes I just have to use a single guitar (no FX, no nothing) to get things done, on other occasions I can pull out the full arsenal. Both scenarios are still satisfying me. At least at times.

[vurt]

im not sure the argument is dont look for better tools,its more if you cant do something with energyXT dont expect to spend a forune on cubase and be able to make a better sounding track,ie better tools do not make one better.

[BONES]

I'm not really into experimenting for experimentations sake anymore.

I never was and that kind of indulgence has always put me off.

[tuz]

i have all the tools in the world and then some for making music. sometimes i question myself as to whether or not i will ever be satisfied with my music though. same with tools; it's all about satisfaction and results. am i satisfied? no. why not? i don't know.

[vurt]

ps:pet sounds is fuckin marvelous

[Dozius]

That's quite a sad post.
I'm not having a pop specifically at you AudioWhore. You've just articulated an attitude that's all to common on KvR. The idea that timbre is as important as composition. It never has been. It never will be.
There is a fundamental difference between sound and music, and all the synth widdling and expensive kit in the world won't change that.

I have to disagree

Lot's of luck with your chosen career.

I don't think my career is dependent on my opinion about timbre and composition, but thanks anyways.

[deaf dunderkwac]

i have all the tools in the world and then some for making music. sometimes i question myself as to whether or not i will ever be satisfied with my music though. same with tools; it's all about satisfaction and results. am i satisfied? no. why not? i don't know.

-r- you just searching?
I've never been totally satified with anything I've ever attempted...
But I'm just crazy enuff to attempt it anyway!

Limited tools helps create disipline.
Disipline helps create a certain type of satisfaction.

it's dis circular thingy imho

[tuz]

i have all the tools in the world and then some for making music. sometimes i question myself as to whether or not i will ever be satisfied with my music though. same with tools; it's all about satisfaction and results. am i satisfied? no. why not? i don't know.

-r- you just searching?
I've never been totally satified with anything I've ever attempted...
But I'm just crazy enuff to attempt it anyway!

Limited tools helps create disipline.
Disipline helps create a certain type of satisfaction.

it's dis circular thingy imho

learning and searching while being lazy and crazy :p

[Amberience]

I'm not really into experimenting for experimentations sake anymore.

I never was and that kind of indulgence has always put me off.

I don't think anyone has ever accused you of experimenting Bones.

[The Chase]

For the composition/timbre arguement

I like some music that was recorded shittily on a shitty 4-track tape recorder but the composition is unique and beautiful - nothing compares to the composition, putting me in awe of the melody and not the actual sounds.

On the other hand, I also like some music that isnt a very good composition, but was produced so well and sounds clean and tight, featuring some sick bass/pad/drone/lead/percussion that I appreciate because of the timbre and not the melody/composition.

Some bass riffs i like because of the bass line. SOme I like because of the bass sound.

Which is better? depends on the mood im in. Depends on the person's personal preference. Preference cannot be incorrect, rendering the timbre/composition arguement pointless, in my oppinion