I am turning into a theory slut

[Wopelka]

I've always found classical music to bore the living pants off me - no feeling, no imagery, nothing, nada. Static boring music.

i can't believe i just read that. insane.

what kind of "classical music" are you talking about? what century, what composer, what genre, what interpretation?

[xander]

Theory can be wonderful or it can be evil, depending on how you learn and your personality. Someone said "learn to unlearn." Learning to disregard certain guidelines at a few select moments will be just as valuable as learning it all in the first place.

That's also well said -- You can use a hammer to build something interesting or you can beat yourself to death with it...

[xander]

I've always found classical music to bore the living pants off me - no feeling, no imagery, nothing, nada. Static boring music.

i can't believe i just read that. insane.

what kind of "classical music" are you talking about? what century, what composer, what genre, what interpretation?

Feel sorry for the bloke.. I bet he's just shoving all music he considers boring under the 'classical' wrapper.

Anyone who goes to a symphony concert and listens to upwards of a hundred or more human beings pour their souls out through beautifully crafted musical instruments and gets nothing out of it is, well -- perhaps someone to pity.

[DWb]

Anyone who goes to a symphony concert and listens to upwards of a hundred or more human beings pour their souls out through beautifully crafted musical instruments and gets nothing out of it is, well -- perhaps someone to pity.

Anyone who can listen to Mahler or Shostakovich or Beethoven and get 'no feeling' or listen to Debussy and get 'no imagery'...

Like I said,

[xander]

Anyone who goes to a symphony concert and listens to upwards of a hundred or more human beings pour their souls out through beautifully crafted musical instruments and gets nothing out of it is, well -- perhaps someone to pity.

Anyone who can listen to Mahler or Shostakovich or Beethoven and get 'no feeling' or listen to Debussy and get 'no imagery'...

Like I said,

Indeed mate. However, to give Chibs' Bath Toy the benefit of the doubt, I don't think he really meant that.

...at least I hope so anyway.

[paradiddle]

I have to utterly disagree with you over here but I won't go into a speech mode has it is useless. Your mind's made up.

I've always found classical music to bore the living pants off me - no feeling, no imagery, nothing, nada. Static boring music.

[Rock]

Saying that learning theory kills creativity is as stupid as saying that learning to read kills free speech.

[xander]

Saying that learning theory kills creativity is as stupid as saying that learning to read kills free speech.

Even so, the argument that is does cramp creativity employs a kind of sideways logic that some people will defend to the death...

To wit, you can teach someone to eat with a fork, but you can't stop them from poking their eye out with it -- especially the generally more 'life-challenged' among us.

[whyterabbyt]

I know why theory scares people.

Nope, you just assume that you do. On top of the assumption that its fear that causes people not to learn it in the first place.

You only have to listen to most prog rock to realise that knowledge of theory sounds like a recipe for boring music.

There are plenty of recipes for boring music. Genre cliches are probably as responsible as anything else.

I think that this is due to the learning process not the acquisition of knowledge.

I doubt it. I'd suggest its more to do with imagination and creativity.

There is something wonderful about naive music which the process of learning sometimes erodes.

Perhaps sometimes. Without any kind of quantification this is essentially meaningless. You might as well say there's something wonderful about obscurity and poverty which the process of earning sometimes erodes.

Most pop groups don't get better once they've been around a while.

That's not really the purpose of a 'pop group', though, is it.

But.
Naive musicians make the same easy harmonic choices all the time.

Some naive musicians make some of them same easy harmonic choices some of the time.

It's why they date so fast.

I doubt that's the only significant factor. Especially with 'pop' groups.

[whyterabbyt]

Even so, the argument that is does cramp creativity employs a kind of sideways logic that some people will defend to the death...

You're an expert on how everyone creates?

[DWb]

Even so, the argument that is does cramp creativity employs a kind of sideways logic that some people will defend to the death...

You're an expert on how everyone creates?

Xander didn't make a general statement about how everyone creates. In fact, he was disagreeing with a general statement about how everyone creates, so a single counterexample (eg himself) should do the trick...

[whyterabbyt]

Xander didn't make a general statement about how everyone creates.

No, he made a statement that implied a knowledge of what would happen if specific people ceased to adhere to their stance.

In fact, he was disagreeing with a general statement about how everyone creates, so a single counterexample (eg himself) should do the trick...

Not in the post I specifically quoted, no. And all I actually see is sweeping generalisations about how people should react and behave, and dismissive insults towards those who dont react and behave that way.

[DWb]

In fact, he was disagreeing with a general statement about how everyone creates, so a single counterexample (eg himself) should do the trick...

Not in the post I specifically quoted, no. And all I actually see is sweeping generalisations about how people should react and behave, and dismissive insults towards those who dont react and behave that way.

Was he? From his wording I assumed he was disagreeing with the statement 'learning music theory kills your creativity' rather than 'learning music theory would kill my creativity.' But it's not totally clear from context.

*shrugs*

[whyterabbyt]

Was he?

At a rough guess, based on:

Anyone who's scared of learning theory to enhance their musical abilities is the same moron who'd be scared of things like the Christmas Grinch and the little dwarves who live under your bed

Anyone who goes to a symphony concert and listens to upwards of a hundred or more human beings pour their souls out through beautifully crafted musical instruments and gets nothing out of it is, well -- perhaps someone to pity

To wit, you can teach someone to eat with a fork, but you can't stop them from poking their eye out with it -- especially the generally more 'life-challenged' among us.

Even so, the argument that is does cramp creativity employs a kind of sideways logic that some people will defend to the death...

Then, yeah, I kind of think that he might have been, yes.

From his wording I assumed he was disagreeing with the statement 'learning music theory kills your creativity' rather than 'learning music theory would kill my creativity.' But it's not totally clear from context.

Well I suppose you're right. I suppose it comes down to

'X does cause Y' not actually being equivalent to 'X always does cause Y', and 'X does not cause Y' not being the same as 'X never does cause Y'.

In this case, I'd suggest its entirely possible that X could possibly cause Y in some given individuals, and to suggest that X is automatically superior than 'non-X' is entirely fallacious. #

For any given permutation of X and Y derived from this thread

[Amberience]

I have personal tastes, and that makes me insane or worthy of pity?

I can imagine it would be very good to go to a concert and see it all LIVE, I would appreciate that. I would get something from that.

The only analogy I can think of is: I worked at the Wireless Festival in Hyde Park last year. I got to see Kasabian play live. They were amazing, blew me away. They were psychedelic and hard hitting, and just generally really good.

I bought the album, and it's just not the same. A big let down.

I've heard various pieces by Mozart, Beethoven, Shostakovich, and Bach. And as a general rule (read: not in totality) I find myself getting weary of the pieces after a few minutes in.

Now you can jump on your high horse and call me insane or an asshead or whatever you'd like, but the fact remains these are my tastes, and nothing you say will change that.

I certainly DID mean what I said. I'm by no means an expert on classical music, in fact periods and dates mean very little to me (that goes for all music too: it doesn't matter that Sgt. Peppers' was written in the 60's, that's not why it is good) and the fact that some composers are famous means little to me also.

I get a lot more from a track by Oceansize, King Crimson, Tool, or My Dying Bride than I get from those guys I already mentioned. Is that hard to understand?

Take note - I never said it was shit, I said it wasn't my cup of tea, and stated why it isn't.