KVR Audio

sonicfire · Post by **sonicfire** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:20 pm

Hi folks!

I have a simple question - when i, lets say take a single simple bongo/conga sound from somewhere, modify it a bit and create a complete new musical phrase / loop together with some added stuff out of it - would it be okay for me to legally sell this within a loop/sample-collection/sample-player VSTi? i´m still confused about all that sample rights and stuff.

i assume you cant copyright just one single shot bongo sound for example? or am i wrong here?

i would love to know that - doesn anyone has ideas?
do i have to go out and sample for e.g. a bongo myself ?

kovacs · Post by **kovacs** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:35 pm

sonicfire wrote:do i have to go out and sample for e.g. a bongo myself ?

Well...that would of course be the most original thing to do.

But frankly I'm out of my depth here. I don't think it's okay to take a sample and rework it into something and release it as a new sample, but I may be wrong.

I am very interested in reading other's replies, though.

snooky · Post by **snooky** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:41 pm

it's not okay...sample or synthezise all your work.

sonicfire · Post by **sonicfire** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:08 pm

okay, then i have to look for some company that lends musical instruments or something like this ...

freeztar · Post by **freeztar** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:06 pm

who would know?

That is the big question...

kovacs · Post by **kovacs** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:44 pm

freeztar wrote:who would know?

That is the big question...

Tha conga player, of course.

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:58 pm

freeztar wrote:who would know?

That is the big question...

Under copyright law in the Americas and Europe, it is not cool in most countries (if not all). Likely it would be hard to tell, but one problem would be if someone did catch it, you would be liable and possibly in for a world of legal hurt.

Depending on the source, the risk of getting nabbed for it increases drastically. Major labels pay people to do nothing but vet recordings for copyright infringement. I wouldn't be surprised if major sample library makers do, too. I have a friend who manages a company that does similar work for stock photography companies. It's amazing how much the pick up and how little information they need to find infringers.

freeztar · Post by **freeztar** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:49 pm

OK, but really.....if I take a 909 kick sample and layer it with a generic kick sample and then compress the lot and send it through the churner (Camelspace, Kjaurhaus Autofilter, metalmickey, etc.) then it is not likely that anyone will spot that eh?
I see it as common sense really. Don't step on toes and you hopefully will never feel the force of stiletto heels (unless of course you're into that kinda thing

).

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:07 pm

Well, sure. Generic drum sounds are a dime a dozen, so how would anyone know? But really, in that case, why bother? You could easily achieve the same result in that instance without using someone else's material. However, presumably in the case of taking apart something like a bongo loop, the reason you are doing so is that it contains some unique properties.

It's easy to rip something off without getting caught. But, if you are trying to run a legit business, why take the risk at all on the off-chance you get caught?

freeztar · Post by **freeztar** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:27 pm

shamann wrote:Well, sure. Generic drum sounds are a dime a dozen, so how would anyone know? But really, in that case, why bother? You could easily achieve the same result in that instance without using someone else's material. However, presumably in the case of taking apart something like a bongo loop, the reason you are doing so is that it contains some unique properties.

It's easy to rip something off without getting caught. But, if you are trying to run a legit business, why take the risk at all on the off-chance you get caught?

I agree 100%!!

Which is precisly why I don't rip....
Why take the chance...why not be original?

(there is the rare case where I am covering/mashing a song and original samples are required...but....that is few and far between and never meant to extend beyond its reach)

liars&ashes · Post by **liars&ashes** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:31 pm

sonicfire wrote:lets say take a single simple bongo/conga sound from somewhere,

----I would think it depends on where "somewhere" is exactly. If somewhere is from a Prodigy cd, then no go, but if somewhere is from a sample cd of one shots you bought, or sampled off a drum machine, then I'd wager no one's 1) going to be able to tell, and 2) going to care.
----Although with current copyright laws, if they could sue ya, they would I'm sure. So like others have said, better safe than sorry, even I layer my one shots, it's cheaper than a lawyer

Jeff

SampleStream · Post by **SampleStream** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:37 pm

freeztar wrote:who would know?

That is the big question...

the original sound developer - some of them encode stuff into the wave - normal editors cannot see it - some even watermark the sound (check out stuff by squids he uses fft (it makes a spectral image)

chop it up all you like, traces will remain and you will be in for a bit of troubble no doubt.

Best bet - sample your own sounds if you want to sell them.

sonicfire · Post by **sonicfire** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:42 pm

shamann wrote:Well, sure. Generic drum sounds are a dime a dozen, so how would anyone know? But really, in that case, why bother? You could easily achieve the same result in that instance without using someone else's material. However, presumably in the case of taking apart something like a bongo loop, the reason you are doing so is that it contains some unique properties.

It's easy to rip something off without getting caught. But, if you are trying to run a legit business, why take the risk at all on the off-chance you get caught?

no no no! i didn´t mentionend ripping a bongoloop or something , i meant creating my own using one single bongo sample from any old drummachine or whatever... but i see, its better to sample all stuff myself - thats what i will do now

Shane Sanders · Post by **Shane Sanders** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:42 pm

sonicfire wrote:Hi folks!

I have a simple question - when i, lets say take a single simple bongo/conga sound from somewhere, modify it a bit and create a complete new musical phrase / loop together with some added stuff out of it - would it be okay for me to legally sell this within a loop/sample-collection/sample-player VSTi? i´m still confused about all that sample rights and stuff.

i assume you cant copyright just one single shot bongo sound for example? or am i wrong here?

i would love to know that - doesn anyone has ideas?
do i have to go out and sample for e.g. a bongo myself ?

The license for many of the SoundsOnline.com sets allow for the creation of for-resale loops if your work has 3 or more independent lines happening and no single sound is ever in isolation. Read the fine print, though, as it sure would be a stick up the keester to have to defend a mistake. There's a page somewhere on their site that deals with this issue and they offer to examine the work and approve it before you publish.

Colonel Flashback · Post by **Colonel Flashback** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:05 pm

SampleStream wrote:some even watermark the sound

that's gotta be an urban myth...

question on loops/phrases