playing with real musicians is hard

[G&L_player]

I'm not sure I see your point,

*see next line

...besides it is the rhythm sections job to hold the rhythm...if the drummer is not up to it, it can hardly be my responsibility except to say "I'm sorry but...."

I totally disagree with this bit!

It's the whole band's responsibility to make it work, simply put. Besides, we all have our bad nights/spots. When someone else is there to fill it up...well, what goes around, comes around...in a synergetic sort of way.

too me you just said that I don't have any semblance of timing, or don't take responsibility for holding up my end...

If you implied that, then shame on you! FYI: I meant nothing of the kind. I was simply idealizing. (Please re-read.)

Life was too busy for a band anyhow and doing it myself served me better...

...which is another great reason for keeping the tracking stuff going on, as well. As you know, the situation that you described can happen individually and exponentially. In fact, there are tons of circumstances that affect the unit when we're at the age of reason.

[G&L_player]

Topic: playing with real musicians is hard

Didn't we just do the "are we real musicians?" thread?

Perhaps, this is the evolution of that very same thread?

[the_nihilist]

Topic: playing with real musicians is hard

Didn't we just do the "are we real musicians?" thread?

Perhaps, this is the evolution of that very same thread?

I assure you the thread title wasn't intellegently designed.

[Hink]

listen to tribute by ozzy...just the very beginning, listen close...randy comes in flying, way to fast...it is in fact the drummer that brings him back...if the drummer came in at the same time the song would been way to fast and sounded like crap. If I start to pick-up the tempo the drummer should keep me in check, that way I can speed up and stay in timing...besides pinching a harmonic and diving with the whammy and getting the drummer to slow, or a deep sustaining bend and getting his attention there isn't much more that can be done....if I do not stay in time with the drummer I will sound out of time, not him...we are use to the drums driving the beat.....don't believe me, write a little roller coaster song, speed it up and slow it down slightly during the song...see how many notice....then play a basic rhythm part to a metronome in time and add it to the song...ask them what part is off...

[G&L_player]

Topic: playing with real musicians is hard

Didn't we just do the "are we real musicians?" thread?

Perhaps, this is the evolution of that very same thread?

I assure you the thread title wasn't intellegently designed.

...as you were, then.

[G&L_player]

If I start to pick-up the tempo the drummer should keep me in check, that way I can speed up and stay in timing...besides pinching a harmonic and diving with the whammy and getting the drummer to slow, or a deep sustaining bend and getting his attention there isn't much more that can be done....if I do not stay in time with the drummer I will sound out of time, not him...we are use to the drums driving the beat.....don't believe me, write a little roller coaster song, speed it up and slow it down slightly during the song...see how many notice....then play a basic rhythm part to a metronome in time and add it to the song...ask them what part is off...

This is an easy one to rationalize, because there are all too many instances with no real boundaries. However, I'll ask that you might consider what the word "universe" actually means (i.e. uni-verse; ONE SONG). We are all individual notes, and together we can make music and/or discord. How one apportions this balance can be an artistic choice; responsibility; or even an accident! Puttin' it all on the drummer is just not my bag, simply put. However, this team member usually possesses the greatest propensity to affect the timing in most cases. If one disagrees, then I'm fine with that...and why shouldn't I be? Just make it work.

[Hink]

btw the worst thing about working with other musicians is that dreaded first jam

what do you want to play?

I dunno do you know....?

No how about....?

nah I don't know that one, how something we all know

what do you know?

I dunno, what do you know?

let's play....yada yada



you're not playing it right

I am it's him that's got it wrong

no it isn't

hey let's play...yada yada...



you screwed that up to

no it was you that time

group sigh

wanna get stoned?

[Hink]

If I start to pick-up the tempo the drummer should keep me in check, that way I can speed up and stay in timing...besides pinching a harmonic and diving with the whammy and getting the drummer to slow, or a deep sustaining bend and getting his attention there isn't much more that can be done....if I do not stay in time with the drummer I will sound out of time, not him...we are use to the drums driving the beat.....don't believe me, write a little roller coaster song, speed it up and slow it down slightly during the song...see how many notice....then play a basic rhythm part to a metronome in time and add it to the song...ask them what part is off...

This is an easy one to rationalize, because there are all too many instances with no real boundaries. However, I'll ask that you might consider what the word "universe" actually means (i.e. uni-verse; ONE SONG). We are all individual notes, and together we can make music and/or discord. How one apportions this balance can be an artistic choice; responsibility; or even an accident! Puttin' it all on the drummer is just not my bag, simply put. However, this team member usually possesses the greatest propensity to affect the timing in most cases. If one disagrees, then I'm fine with that...and why shouldn't I be? Just make it work.

if I go off key during a solo I put all of it on me, it was my job not to...not the bands job to follow...if the drummer goes off track why shouldn't it be on him?

[WoJ]

If a drummers job isnt to keep time, what is his job?

WoJ

[P.T.]

Noo! You'll end up playing jaaath for all eternity!

So did the The Beatles use complicated chords...?

WoJ

Frequently.

[G&L_player]

if I go off key during a solo I put all of it on me, it was my job not to...not the bands job to follow...if the drummer goes off track why shouldn't it be on him?

You are absolutely correct! In your case, this is the way it is.

[Lord Snarebottom]

So did the The Beatles use complicated chords...?

Yes, they did.

[WoJ]

example please? Just skipped through me old 'beatles complete' book and i havnt seen much more than a couple of dominant seventh chords in 1 piece.

Im not saying that a few variations arent good here and there, but dont bother learning realy complicated chord structures unless you're interested in jazz or something. For 'everyday' pop/rock/blues I see no point.

edit: dam, 2 people against me i see

WoJ

[P.T.]

That's a book. Someones transcriptions. Listen to the music.

[Lord Snarebottom]

Mind that you have to pay attention to arrangements, not simply fake books or key changes for one instrument.

Eleanor Rigby
Penny Lane
I am the Walrus

There are many who argue that some of the complex arrangements required training, to which I reply "hogwash" (to say it nicely). To argue that melodic or harmonic complexity can only be borne through advanced training is utter BS. I use complex chord structures and timing subtleties all the time, and my training is limited to a few guitar lessons I took in my youth. Now, it is certainly my experience that there aren't many who can manipulate in that space, but that doesn't mean we don't exist. Only the jealous declare such nonsense, and those for whom comprehension of such brilliance is blinded by their own ego.