XT Software

djsubject · Post by **djsubject** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:08 am

soma wrote:honk!

Don't know what you mean but 127 ch and 16 cc sounds like 1 cc on one chanel x 16 ports...

i was trying

to make a joke about you lableing CH out & CC out the wrong way round in the settings page of the Tap plugin,

CC out has a max of 16 & CH out has a max of 127

i supose if you hadent noticed this it might make my joke look more like i need to smoke less weed & use SE more

Subz

GreyLion · Post by **GreyLion** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:09 am

soma -- I just dl'ed your links. Will likely get to play with them a bit tomorrow or on Sunday. I got EXT less than a month ago, so am still coming to grips with it. But I'll definitely wring this out as quickly as possible. I encourage anybody else on this forum with an interest to have a go at it.

If this does generate a tempo map, or write to the tempo envelope, or whatever, in a controllable way, it opens up a whole new world for this sequencer. For those of us who start with a live instrument rather than playing to a click track or sequencing with a mouse, it makes a BIG difference if we can make the software follow us, rather than forcing us to follow it.

Frankly, I'm gonna be stunned if it works the way I hope it does, and if I can understand and use it properly. Sonar has 'Fit to Improvisation', Cubase has 'Map MIDI to Tempo, Pro Tools has 'Beat Detective', and Logic has 'Reclock Song'. I've been struggling to understand them or make them work in demos quite a bit lately.

I'd much prefer to have this all work in EXT.

Again, thanks!

Take care,

GreyLion

glurgle · Post by **glurgle** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:20 am

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 80#1548080
nice to see I'm not crazy, this has been itching at the back of my mind all day. What I said in that thread remains true. It's currently not (easily) possible to record a tempo automation track. However, you can automate tempo with tap when using the sequencers live mode. Say for jamming with a drummer. I totally agree that what you were originally after is a great feature and one I'd like to see integrated into energyXT, but I still feel that being able to record to an envelope track would be almost as good

djsubject · Post by **djsubject** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:22 am

GreyLion wrote:soma -- I just dl'ed your links. Will likely get to play with them a bit tomorrow or on Sunday. I got EXT less than a month ago, so am still coming to grips with it. But I'll definitely wring this out as quickly as possible. I encourage anybody else on this forum with an interest to have a go at it.

the way eXT is at the moment i dont think this can be done,..... yet

(but i am no eXT pro so i could be wrong)

Subz

glurgle · Post by **glurgle** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:26 am

well if you wanted to use live mode and another sequencer you could record all the automating midi into one sequencer and pass it on to the next one containing the live setup, but that's a bit of a pain to do and synchronize.

GreyLion · Post by **GreyLion** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:55 am

Yeah, glurgle, you and I have been here before....

This is gonna get complicated and I'm gonna get my dreams shattered again, I fear.....

But I'm gonna have another go at it. I think I have a lot of learning curve ahead of me on this, because I barely understand the basics of EXT, and I get the impression I need to be a lot more expert to figure it all out...

If this doesn't work out, the fall-back plan is to buy ProTools M-Powered for Beat Detetive and pop stuff back and forth between it and EXT.

I think maybe the question is whether your statement is correct --"However, you can automate tempo with tap when using the sequencers live mode".

Can we indeed tap in a shifting tempo, either into an envelope or someplace else, some other sort of automation track?

Is that just a live thing that only lasts while the sequencer is playing, or does it actually get stored so that it becomes a tempo track that can be replayed and tweaked?

In any case, I'm grateful to soma for taking a run at it.

djsubject · Post by **djsubject** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:58 am

dosent pro tools run vst's?

the beuaty of eXT

Subz

GreyLion · Post by **GreyLion** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:26 am

...damn, my post below got long. Sorry. I'm excited.
*******

Subz -- Yeah, ProTools sorta runs VSTs. You have to buy a VST-to-RTAS wrapper from FXpansion. They're still in beta on that for PT7, the most recent release.

I suspect I'll end up in ProTools partly because I like the interface's feel so far, even though I can't yet actually use it for anything complex. And I suspect that Beat Detective is the tempo tool I'll end up needing. But I'd love to be able to stick EXT in as a VST or VSTi and stay current with that.

And if the thing that soma has, perhaps with help and add-ons from other sources, or aided by updates from jorgen, does what Beat Detective does, I end up staying entirely in EXT.

And I think you end up with more people moving to EXT also, because a working automated tempo-mapping function is a really powerful feature for non-electronica-type musicians. I suspect that it's the main limitation that DAWs have when matched against old-school recording studios, where you came in and actually played the instruments.

The great optimism I have about EXT is how fast it's evolving and extending. Because of that, the docs lag, and its non-standard way of thinking takes concentrated effort for me to understand, and I get lost in it.

But I think that, right now, it's good. It has the potential to be great, if it keeps going this way. I think it can go places that the other sequencers won't be able to go. IMHO. Still very much a noob with EXT, so this is raw opinion on my part, not deep knowledge.

************

Hmmm... glurgle, here's your quote from the other thread, that makes me wonder if this can work --"You can use tempo tracks to automate tempo, and you can use somas plugin to control the tempo when the sequencer is in 'live' mode, but these two things can't interact yet. If/when we can record to an envelope track it may be possible to use the tap tempo plugin to record a tempo envelope track, but not yet."

'Cause I need something that will be stored Somewhere in EXT for repeatability, so we can lay down additional tracks to complete the arrangement, and tweak it, to modify the beat or get it more perfected.

ProTools Beat Detective does exactly this. It's a big selling point for them, and I'd think also would be for EXT if it had this capability.

I've been playing with the M-Powered ProTools demo for about a week now and can't get Beat Detective to work. I'm almost certain that that's my fault though, just me not knowing how to use ProTools properly.

Take care,

GreyLion

glurgle · Post by **glurgle** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:50 am

Wellll... certain things can be done, but it doesn't mean they aren't at least as much work as manually editing a tempo track. Of course, the way tempo automation shifts audio around on the timeline right now... (a completely different story/gripe).

So without further ado, download and try this

You might want to copy and paste these instructions:

In the first sequencer (docked on the 'Audio Tracks' page) you have 4 tracks. In the first track you would record your initial audio with no regard for the 120bpm tempo.

Then you would record yourself tapping C1 in time to the recorded audio. C1 is note number 36 for programming a button on your controller.

At this point, you can start working in the live sequencer (docked on the 'Live Mode VSTs' page) and everything should be synced to the tap tempo track in your first sequencer.

Give it a try and let us know how it works.

soma · Post by **soma** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:38 am

glurgle wrote:well if you wanted to use live mode and another sequencer you could record all the automating midi into one sequencer and pass it on to the next one containing the live setup, but that's a bit of a pain to do and synchronize.

Or make the tempo map in your favorite sequencer and use xt as a VST in sync mode.

soma · Post by **soma** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:49 am

Gurgle, your example is pretty similar to the one I posted.

glurgle · Post by **glurgle** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:27 am

heh, I didn't realize you'd posted an example already. I didn't even really try mine, I was just throwing out an example

soma · Post by **soma** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:37 pm

The only thing with your example is that you are tapping on beat

so it really just mapped the live one to the tempo of the other.

glurgle · Post by **glurgle** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:55 pm

soma, yeah I couldn't be bothered to make an off-tempo tap for demonstration purposes

guitarzan · Post by **guitarzan** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:42 am

soma wrote:
GreyLion wrote:Wait! Is that a simple tap-tempo funciton that sets a flat tempo?

Or is it a plug-in that will see MIDI hits and adjust the tempo as you continue to tap, creating a tempo map? Which I REALLY want! Which will make me discontinue thoughts of buying ProTools simply for its Beat Detective fuction.
The second one! I'll post an example in a minute.

edit:
http://soma.spoonboiler.com/plugs/Soma_ ... _Alpha.zip
and
http://www.asseca.com/soma/downloads/so ... ort_ex.zip
and drumatic 3

http://soma.spoonboiler.com/examples/tempo_map.ext

The first sequencer I am tapping the tempo I want. (the example is a bit extreme!) It is fed into the tap tempo plug. This controls the tempo of the sequencer playing the live file. (This could be a whole song just switched to live mode.)
The transport ex on the midi track 2 of the tempo seq. is there just to start the other sequencer when the the tempo one starts.
You could add my CC glider in between the tap tempo and the live sequence to get smoother ramps in tempo.

Please give me feedback on the tap tempo plug...
The setting are hidden. Press the down arrow to see that page.

Hey guys...does this still work?? Like GreyLion I am looking for a way to synch a midi drummer like Jamstix to audio that has been recorded without regard to BPM, which is the way I would GREATLY prefer to work. Is there anything planned in eXT2 that would help?

EDIT: @ glurgle and soma - do you still have the example .ext files? I found everything else. Thanks!!

XT Software

KVR Audio

Tempo CC control