How is Tracktion working out for you? My decision tomm

[nuisance sonore]

It sounds like what i'm looking for, but Ableton is just too fuckin expensive, I couldn't justify it at this point.

Unless you do what I like to call "creative shopping".

You can buy an M-audio Audiophile 24/96 for about $100.00, it comes with Ableton Live lite onboard. That version can be upgraded to Live 5 full for $249.00, then just sell the Audiophile if you don't need it, you'll easily get $60.00 to $70.00 for it. The totall cost for you for a full, legit non academic version of Live 5 going that route would be around $290.00 give or take a few dollars depending how much you pay for the Audiophile and how much you get for it when you sell it. That's assuming Live is the one you want and you're willing to spend some time to save a few hundreds $ of course. And no, the Live license is not tied to the hardware when going that route, I already emailed Ableton about this, feel free to do the same.

If you look around, maybe you can find other hardware with similar deals, maybe even hardware that were already on your shopping list. Quite a few software title I got that way with great savings.

[headquest]

Well, at this point it might be a good idea to start a new thread in "Hosts"

This thread is in "Hosts"...

Let's talk the hosts around $300. I see

Cubase SL
P5
Sonar Studio edition
Adobe Audition
...

What exactly do you want to know about these? Could you list your feature needs?

(I have Audition, Sonar, previously used Cubase, and have tried P5 demo).

[j_T]

This thread is in "Hosts"...

Thanks for the hint

Regards,

Tommy

[Meloday]

If anyone is using other hosts then please feel free to chime in here and mention them.

eXT=

intuitive
modular
community
developement
cheap

[No name]

i'll list them then...

Good, easy way of looping (like acid where you just pull the track and it automatically loops)

A piano roll.

Time stretching would be a plus

Something with decent FX, and will actually read my folders and show ALL of my VST's. Acid has had a problem with this.

Fairly light on my DAW. Meaning something that won't eat up all my RAM BEFORE I even open audio tracks. I'm gonna have about 750mb RAM just in case anyone needed to know,

Of course I want a host that is dependable, and fairly solid.

Oh yea, and if possible still, something with just a simple password, no f**king dongles if possible (but I doubt it).

And like FL, I want something that accepts midi devices with ease. "It's funny because I heard all the talk about how bad FL was for midi and then I got my controller and I was very impressed by how easy FL was to set up with my midi controller. I just don't want to have to go through page after page editing cc and all types of midi related shit everytime I simply want to assign my modulation wheel to something.

I'm not asking for much I don't think.


Oh, and of course something with good support, regular updates.

As to the poster who talked about buying an M audio card for Live lite, it just so happens I bought a keystation 88 and it came with it, I gave Live lite to my bro though. If it comes down to it i'll just get it back from him and upgrade like you said. He's not gonna know how to use the program anyways, he wants to learn but I doubt he ecven has time.

Thanks people, there is my list, I doubt i'll have my DAW hooked up to the net so I can;t really try out demos on it. I'll see what I can do though.

[headquest]

In that case I think the two Cakewalk titles on your list - P5v2 and Sonar SE - are your best bet.

Cubase may have better controller mapping (I'm not sure, so somebody else will have to comment on that) and will offer the best VST support of the four you listed... but it has mediocre effects, if fairly processor intensive, and is reputed to have poor custer support. ALso it has a dongle, and is not a particularly intuitive looping environment.

Audition is a fantastic audio editing program and good for multitrack audio recording. It also has fantastic timestrech and ACID - type looping tool. But MIDI mapping is fairly non existant, it cannot host VST instruments or do MIDI sequencing (so no piano roll), and developer support/updates are not exactly forthcoming (no update for 19 months at present...)

Sonar and P5 both fit the requirements you list nicely. Sonar SE in particular excels at everything you list - a big advantage it has over P5 is that it now includes the Sonitus fx:suite which retails on its own for £199 - nearly the price of Sonar SE itself!!

And I have found Sonar PE to be the least processor intensive sequencer of all those discussed inthis thread. Also no dongle, of course!

I hope that helps.

[GreyLion]

And, you've probably also noticed this -- Hit Cakewalk's site and you can do a thing like Nuisance mentioned. Buy their cheapest program, register it, and then you can 'upgrade' to their more expensive programs for a LOT less.

[Lunch Money]

I still think Tracktion meets your needs.

Cakewalk products are cool, though.

[headquest]

I still think Tracktion meets your needs.

From his list I think Tracktion is strong at some of his requirements but not quite so good at some of the others. And I think he has already ruled it out now anyway.

[diverdee]

I still think Tracktion meets your needs.

Cakewalk products are cool, though.

He wanted

Good, easy way of looping

audio in T2 ok-ish, midi - fagedabahdit....

Time stretching would be a plus

T2 timestretch is still notoriously poor...

Something with decent FX

there are the mackie fx in tracktion, but still no sign of the reverb I believe? - no comparison to other hosts plugs IMO, esp. Sonar...

accepts midi devices with ease

depends on how easy & what exactly you are using & wanting to do with T2 doesn't it?....

Oh, and of course something with good support, regular updates

T2/Mackie seem to have lost the plot a little IMO with support & updates, although Beno is a star, as are many of the RMS forum regulars who are very knowledgeable & helpful with regards to workarounds & bugs/'features'.
I moved from Tracktion to Live.
There were problems with Live, for instance I participated in notifying the abes of some midi problems, once they understood what the problem was the next update (5.03) sorted them out within days.
I also found bugs/issues in tracktion last year - they are still there
I would also heartily reccomend sonar (which I don't personally use) to anyone.
After spending some of last week at my mates G5 Logic & dual 01X based studio I really wish there was still logic on PC though.

[Lunch Money]

Just one more response before I drop it again. (you guys are getting good at browbeating me! I used to be the one with the stamina!)

1. The looping is excellent in Tracktion. You can drag a loop out to any size, exactly like Acid's paintbrush tool. It just doesn't allow tempo adjustments. Since he said timestretch is a "plus", I still considered his requirement met. A feature not found in other hosts for some reason since it's such a basic concept, namely Tracktion's ability to auto-set tempo based on a clip is a simple but effective tool to aid the process.

- Also, I proved recently that beatslicing-based timestretch isn't impossible in Tracktion with nothing more than what you get in the core program... it's easy, in fact, and unless you're looking for simple tempo changes, it's actually very creative and useful. The sound quality actually beat out Acid in certain situations, which I also proved with audio examples.

- Looping issue again: Am I the only one who uses a variety of loops as though they're bricks, and change them every few measures or so anyhow? CTRL+C and CTRL+V along with drag-n-drop of loops makes it pretty easy.

In other words, I don't know why people think looping doesn't work or is crap in Tracktion. It's fine. It's the timestretch that is terrible.

2. The timestretch is notoriously poor. Who can argue?

3. Something with decent FX - The Mackie Dynamics along with Final Mix are an excellent and professional set of tools. Let's say you don't like Final Mix, the remaining plug-ins are still great. Reverb is reverb. Most people have hundreds of reverbs they're happier with than their host reverbs. That's pretty weak. Saying it's "no comparison" is accurate for many people who think that the Mackie plugs are superior to some of those that come with other hosts. It's all opinion.

4. Yes, it depends entirely on what you want to do with your MIDI device. Tracktion accepts MIDI devices with ease. Requirement met.

5. Regarding updates, it's been done to death. I think Mackie's support could use improvement, too, but I don't think they've dropped the ball. They're quick to respond, it just sounds like a couple of their phone support guys need some training.

That's about it.

Why don't people just try the demos? It'd save headquest and I from a lot of arguments.

[diverdee]

A feature not found in other hosts for some reason since it's such a basic concept, namely Tracktion's ability to auto-set tempo based on a clip is a simple but effective tool to aid the process.

Yeah - that is a cool little feature for sure - it'd be nice in Live, I know logic does that also.

The Mackie Dynamics along with Final Mix are an excellent and professional set of tools.

Finalmix is nice, that's one reason I still have tracktion ready to throw on my machine.
I was considering getting izotope ozone (still may), but final mix is a very fine mastering tool (in my very limited experience) so i'm really not sure that I need to spend that money.

I proved recently that beatslicing-based timestretch isn't impossible in Tracktion with nothing more than what you get in the core program... it's easy, in fact, and unless you're looking for simple tempo changes, it's actually very creative and useful.

Wasn't that using the included sampler? If so I remember that discussion (I still keenly follow T2's development) & you are quite right.
I love it when people explore the depths of their host to really squeeze the functionality out
I know peeps have done similar things with Live, utilising Simpler & Impulse.

It just doesn't allow tempo adjustments....and unless you're looking for simple tempo changes, it's actually very creative and useful

Shame about the tempo adjustment thing.
All in all I would still heartily recommend T2 to someone who is mainly going to be doing simple audio work.
At that it does excel.
I remember a few discussions I either partook in or read on the RMS forums where many of the 'old-guard' admitted that they were using it either totally or mainly for audio, we who were more midi based seemed to find it more problematic.

[headquest]

- Also, I proved recently that beatslicing-based timestretch isn't impossible in Tracktion with nothing more than what you get in the core program... it's easy, in fact, and unless you're looking for simple tempo changes, it's actually very creative and useful. The sound quality actually beat out Acid in certain situations, which I also proved with audio examples.

That sounds interesting Greg. Do you have a link to a thread/tutorial or something?

Reverb is reverb. Most people have hundreds of reverbs they're happier with than their host reverbs.

Reverb is one of the most important effects, and yet one of those that folk least agree on. However - my only comment is that Sonar does provide the best range of reverbs in any host application. The Sonitus reverb is very popular, and rightly so, but the Lexicon Pantheon reverb has really blown my mind - it's stunning. And Perfect Space of course - well it's just brilliant . No other host (including either Tracktion or Ableton) comes close in that department

Why don't people just try the demos? It'd save headquest and I from a lot of arguments.

Well said, and so true, my friend!

[original flipper]

HI

Just out of curiosity; now Mackie own Tracktion does the dev still work on it regularly or is it more of a "we will pay you to come and do some bug fixes" or "we will pay you to come and add this feature"?

I only ask this as in; if the previous is the case could we not be looking at an application that is likely to fade away?

I also ask this in light of the (as someone has pointed out) seeming lack of movement with the program - I assume that a full time developer can get quite a lot done in a month by month period?

Flipper.

[shamann]

From what I can tell:
- Jules doesn't do much on Tracktion any more, but is quite active on the Juce side, which is, I think, at the core of Tracktion.
- Mackie have other programmers involved, so unless it becomes a major money loser, I can't see them dumping it in the near future.
- Have the T2 updates been any less frequent than what Steinberg puts out with Cubase? It isn't like it was during its nascent days, but I don't think it is as dire as web forum chatter might suggest.