why are most soft synths and effects so expensive?

[Urs]

Could someone explain or atleast help me understand what kind of moronic logic these people use.

I once went to one of these forums. They had a thread about a cracked software of mine. So I signed up and started talking to them. It was depressing. Some did not hesitate to express their thanks for "your wonderful piece of software" and in the next sentence asked wtf I was doing here, because I should better work on more software for them rather than coming up with stupid arguments.

It's like a big reality distortion field. There's no common sense nor any conscience of doing anything wrong. Totally no respect.

However, I checked a lot of threads there and found that while the actual knowledge of technology was quite high, there was hardly any reference to musical activity. No questions like "how do I do this or that". Some totally crap mp3s though. Kidz who were proud on their first successfully looping TB303-line, made with equipment worth 5-digit numbers. Kjewl

So I think the freeloader scene is mostly a somewhat musically retarded parallel universe.

On the other hand there's that depressing history of a highly respected VST Synth that sold only 100 copies but was credited by a lot more pro musicians. It was a must-have, but hardly anyone bought it. Back in the days when this company was still making software...

Cheers,

Urs

[LiteOn]

On the other hand there's that depressing history of a highly respected VST Synth that sold only 100 copies but was credited by a lot more pro musicians. It was a must-have, but hardly anyone bought it. Back in the days when this company was still making software...

Argh Urs, the beaf - please.

[Urs]

Nope, no details. I had to swear it prior to getting the info.

[LiteOn]

Ok- accepted

[DWb]

Who said people using warez NEEDS the stuff they leech from pirate sites?

Then why the f**k do they bother ?
Not having a go at you.
I just don't get the logic of people that do this sort of crap that's all.
Could someone explain or atleast help me understand what kind of moronic logic these people use. :shrug:
Man I must live in a bubble or something.
The whole thing just baffles me.

A lot of them just don't seem to be aware that it's possible to make music without the latest Cubase and a whole lot of expensive synths. Either they haven't heard of the budget stuff, or they assume that 'teh proffesionals' tend to use expensive stuff because you need expensive stuff to be in any way professional rather than because making lots of money from music means you can afford a lot of expensive kit.

This is why the unofficial KvR policy of telling warez users to eat flaming death as soon as they appear might not be the most helpful strategy in the world...

[kritikon]

Jesus f**king h. christ man.. even if I were a millionaire I'd never spend 3 grand on a mic preamp! Are you crazy???

Hmmmm....if you were a millionaire, I gaurantee you would if you were serious about your music. If you had the money spare you'd be buying up Oberheim Expanders and Serge modulars. If you have the money, for example, why would you make do with using inflexible convolution or some half-cocked supposed native emulation of a decent reverb if you could easily afford something like an Eventide or a decent Lexicon, when (IMO) they sound so much better than the native offerings.

I don't mean to be harsh, but it's a real fact of life that everyone lives according to their budget...if you don't have the income, then you simply don't get to play with the expensive toys. And in many instances, the expensive toys DO sound a whole level or two above the cheaper options. Not always, but often.

If you're a student, just live with the likely knowledge that one day soon you will be earning enough to afford the better toys. Just don't expect the expensive toy manufacturers to sell according to your own budget...they have no obligation and often no desire to do so...nor should they have to.

I used to buy alot of h/w that added up to alot of money. It was money I could afford when I was single, cheap rent, no huge outlays. And it was worth every penny at the time. You can still choose to use cheap and/or free s/w, but believe me that when you do have the spare money, you will use more expensive gear. It's not a moral principle, it's just you don't have the cash to do that at present.

Sure, there are some bits of s/w I would still choose to use even I had unlimited funds. ImpOSCar for one - it's a good emulation, and it's polyophonic - the real h/w is only duophonic. I would most likely still use a PC for audio recording and editing (but not mixing), but please don't let's deceive ourselves that if we could afford it we all wouldn't snap up the best gear we could.

And this is a response solely to the "moral indignation" that s/w is deemed as expensive by some - it's not - what you mean is that you are morally indignant that you don't have more money. They're two completely different things.

[nuffink]

I'd chose software if I were as rich as Croesus.
Virtual instruments are simply better. They work better, sound better and rate at least 9.8 on the are better scale.

[lnikj]

Well said Krtikon!

I know of no society or culture on earth where goods are priced according to a person's ability to pay. Get real guys. The fact that I know I will never have enough money to buy a Ferrari does not mean that I have a right to go out and steal one, nor would I expect them to make one for me at a knock down price.

Urs has been contributing to this thread, so I will use his software as an example. If you think Zebra 2 is not worth $200 then don't buy it, and certainly don't steal it - register your protest at the price, if you think it is valid protest, buy not giving Urs your money. That is the way the market works.

(Having said that, if you really don't think it is worth $200, then I think that you are simply deluded. I was a student once too. I think that if you surgically detach your mobile from your ear, stop drinking and smoking for a couple of weeks, and live off potatoes and lentils, you will miraculously find that after a couple of weeks that you have saved $200.)

[kritikon]

I think that if you surgically detach your mobile from your ear, stop drinking and smoking for a couple of weeks, and live off potatoes and lentils, you will miraculously find that after a couple of weeks that you have saved $200.)

Yeah, I used to spend ridiculous amounts on a weekend just getting off my conker. Two nights at the pub could probably buy a decent VSTi.

I think I used to spend 40% on rent and bills, 50% on "entertainment" and and 10% on study-related shite.

Students remember why you're going to university...it's so you can get a decent job later on and earn better money. Becoming a doctor or lawyer or prime minister is irrelevant. So that you can buy nice shiney expensive synths and Lexicons and $3000 amps.
Degree = nice gear.

[kritikon]

I'd chose software if I were as rich as Croesus.
Virtual instruments are simply better. They work better, sound better and rate at least 9.8 on the are better scale.

That's only on the virtually better scale.
On the really real better scale, h/w comes in at 9.9
Although in Finland, I believe it comes in at zero.

[nBeat]

What occurs to me from reading this thread is that most users measure the value of software based on the state of their own finances. Guys with thousands to spend on a studio think $200 for a quality synth is good value, whereas those on a tight budget call it an overpriced rip-off.

Basically, if its free or you can afford it then its good value, if you can't afford it its over-priced. But users have to realise that the value of a product isn't based on how much cash you personally have in your account. And its no reason to resent developers for making something you can't afford.
...
Hey if freeware was just as good and you could get everything you want then why would anyone bother moaning about commericial product prices if they had no need for these products?

I find it insulting when anyone refers to developers as greedy, its absolutely ridiculous. How can it be greedy to ask for money in return for doing a job? Isn't it more greedy to expect a highly skilled guy to work for hundreds of hours on a complicated piece of software and then give you it for free or for whatever price happens to suit you?

Phew ok rant over

If you're a student, just live with the likely knowledge that one day soon you will be earning enough to afford the better toys. Just don't expect the expensive toy manufacturers to sell according to your own budget...they have no obligation and often no desire to do so...nor should they have to.
...
And this is a response solely to the "moral indignation" that s/w is deemed as expensive by some - it's not - what you mean is that you are morally indignant that you don't have more money. They're two completely different things.

Well said Krtikon!

I know of no society or culture on earth where goods are priced according to a person's ability to pay. Get real guys. The fact that I know I will never have enough money to buy a Ferrari does not mean that I have a right to go out and steal one, nor would I expect them to make one for me at a knock down price.

Pfew !
Well, I've been following this for 22 pages and I really
think these quotes sum it up very well IMO.
No software aren't overpriced.

[eduardo_b]

However, I checked a lot of threads there and found that while the actual knowledge of technology was quite high, there was hardly any reference to musical activity.

This confirms my assumption that warez plug-ins and sequencers aren't typically used by anyone serious about making music. Which is why the ratio of warez downloads to sales doesn't translate into lost sales. It's simply the opportunity to collect software just to have it.

I don't think anyone here has mentioned impulse purchasing...buying something on the spur of the moment because the price is right and one feels like having something new to play with. It wouldn't be surprising if a lot of $10 and $20 plug-ins are bought because they cost less than a meal and a couple of beers. That isn't going to happen with Absynth or Reaktor -- unless you happen to think that they are less expensive than a weekend at the pub.

[M'Snah]

Degree = nice gear.

Only to a certain degree .

Afterthought: I liked the wordplay, but there's some truth in it: getting your PhD has only limited value in getting more / nicer gear, at least in my country.


Seriously... This thread is good reading and food for thought, and it's good - great even - to see some of the developers taking part in it.

For me it's such a weird idea to use warez, I really have a lot of trouble understanding people who do, or actually to understand why those people don't understand that you should pay for it. This thread answers some of that. And partly I believe that it's not possible to have discussion like this - or at least get it to a conclusion - with people who think so totally different, as Urs mentioned.

(And for a laugh: I actually almost bought Zebra 1 2 months ago when it was still all Mac, even though I only have Win XP . I think that's the opposite of warez: buying software that you cannot use ).

[M'Snah]

I don't think anyone here has mentioned impulse purchasing...buying something on the spur of the moment because the price is right and one feels like having something new to play with. It wouldn't be surprising if a lot of $10 and $20 plug-ins are bought because they cost less than a meal and a couple of beers. That isn't going to happen with Absynth or Reaktor -- unless you happen to think that they are less expensive than a weekend at the pub.

Now that you mention it: Actually I'm planning my impulse buy for next month (after my bonus comes in), and my shortlist currenty consists of: Virus T1, Absynth, VAZ Modular, and maybe should include Reaktor as well). It's probably going to be the Virus though... My wife will let me spend 2k on hardware, but would object to buying 400 euro software .

[Amberience]

kritikon, you don't know me well enough to make any judgements about what I would do if I were a millionaire. If I were though, I'd stick to EnergyXT, my Kjearhus products (I'd probably buy the GAC too) and for reverb I'd much rather have the arts acoustic than a lexicon hardware unit. I'd still use the Minimogue, I wouldn't fork out on a real Moog, and I'd probably buy a really kick ass guitar. Other than that though, not much would change.

you're right though. If I had more money, expensive software prices wouldn't be an issue. But because I don't have unlimited amount of money, it is an issue for me, and for the majority of musicians too. because they don't have money either.

My entire point was that the majority are poor people, not rich people. So yes, that means that some products are over priced.

If you've got 10 people, and only one of them can afford to buy your product. Surely it's better to sell to all ten of them than just one of them?