why are most soft synths and effects so expensive?

[james0tucson]

My wife will let me spend 2k on hardware, but would object to buying 400 euro software

Pleased to hear it's not just me, then.

Your wives support you? I guess there are some compromises to be made when your spouse is the breadwinner. (Please tell me you aren't bringing home a salary only to be told by someone else how it is to be spent.)

[DWb]

I think the pricing is pretty good. You weigh up a product's utility versus it's market price. If you don't feel that the utility of Zebra2 is worth whatever $$ it costs, then you don't buy it, even if you'd kinda like to have it.

For me, this is pretty much the answer. The same applies to arguments about selling synthedit synths, pricing of sample libraries and so on and so forth.

One thing that doesn't come into it, though, is the 'Suchandsuch put untold hours of hard work and expertise into this product, you should be grateful to have it at TWICE the price and stop complaining like a spoiled kid when you don't get given everything you need for free' argument that seems to come up whenever anyone suggests that they'd be more likely to buy the product if it cost less...

[M'Snah]

Your wives support you? I guess there are some compromises to be made when your spouse is the breadwinner. (Please tell me you aren't bringing home a salary only to be told by someone else how it is to be spent.)

Actually it's a conspiracy. My secretary tells me what to do at work, and then sends me home to my wife, who takes over.

[Gargoyle]

DWb, that's true up to a point, but then it comes down to how people feel if they knew that actually a developer / programmer / designer worked at such-and-such-a-rate in order to provide that product.

I know for me personally, it's a matter of conscience almost (particularly as a one-person business myself) that I am not contributing to another person working at inadequate financial rates (and often at less than adequate satisfaction). Since I can relate to that on a personal level, it just strikes me as something I cannot ignore when it comes to other people trying to do the same as me, i.e. pay bills and earn a decent enough living.

Anyway, that's just me and how I see it. Not a prescription for anyone else, of course

[beej]

I think personal involvement by developers on boards such as KVR is a really good thing for end users, and is an influence on what I buy. In fact, much of the stuff i've bought has been first and foremost because I wanted the product, but also because I "know" the developers - it inspires confidence.

I'm speaking here of the Emagic guys, G-Media (Dave, Jon), Urs, Rene, Eric P, and others like Michael of ReFX and Peter from Linplug. I am more likely to purchase products from companies who have reputable, approachable, good-natured people keeping up the company's reputation.

It's not the biggest factor, but it *is* a factor.

[DWb]

DWb, that's true up to a point, but then it comes down to how people feel if they knew that actually a developer / programmer / designer worked at such-and-such-a-rate in order to provide that product.

I know for me personally, it's a matter of conscience almost (particularly as a one-person business myself) that I am not contributing to another person working at inadequate financial rates (and often at less than adequate satisfaction). Since I can relate to that on a personal level, it just strikes me as something I cannot ignore when it comes to other people trying to do the same as me, i.e. pay bills and earn a decent enough living.

Anyway, that's just me and how I see it. Not a prescription for anyone else, of course :)

Yeah, I know what you mean. I do similar things myself with eg record shops. And it depends a lot on how the original complaint was phrased. I just get annoyed by the implications that get chucked around that not spending money on something because you can get something almost as good cheaper or free makes you morally unsound...

[Muff Wiggler]

I think personal involvement by developers on boards such as KVR is a really good thing for end users, and is an influence on what I buy. In fact, much of the stuff i've bought has been first and foremost because I wanted the product, but also because I "know" the developers - it inspires confidence.

I'm speaking here of the Emagic guys, G-Media (Dave, Jon), Urs, Rene, Eric P, and others like Michael of ReFX and Peter from Linplug. I am more likely to purchase products from companies who have reputable, approachable, good-natured people keeping up the company's reputation.

It's not the biggest factor, but it *is* a factor.

I think this is a great point. I've bought lots of VSTs because the developer is active here at KVR. VSTs I wouldn't have bought otherwise for sure.

[Gargoyle]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I do similar things myself with eg record shops. And it depends a lot on how the original complaint was phrased. I just get annoyed by the implications that get chucked around that not spending money on something because you can get something almost as good cheaper or free makes you morally unsound...

Very true, there's nothing morally unsound about that all, IMHO
Anyway, I have a hunch that most developers would prefer that people use freeware alternatives to their product than warez versions of them. I could be wrong... but...I don't think so.

I definitely hear you on the record shops point. It's a shame that so many independent retailers like that are no longer around or have had to compromise so much in order to surive.

Anyway, thanks for the reply

[stefancrs]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I do similar things myself with eg record shops. And it depends a lot on how the original complaint was phrased. I just get annoyed by the implications that get chucked around that not spending money on something because you can get something almost as good cheaper or free makes you morally unsound...

Very true, there's nothing morally unsound about that all, IMHO
Anyway, I have a hunch that most developers would prefer that people use freeware alternatives to their product than warez versions of them. I could be wrong... but...I don't think so.

I'd think the same. Even if it means lost sales (which it probably would, due to decreased popularity). Mainly due to "sentimental" reasons, you care for your own products and might get upset if people use them without paying for a license to do so, and so forth.

[JonHodgson]

Anyway, I have a hunch that most developers would prefer that people use freeware alternatives to their product than warez versions of them. I could be wrong... but...I don't think so.

I certainly would.

Finance aside, I see it as an exchange between myself and the users, to our mutual benefit, I give them something that brings them pleasure and/or money, and they give me something in return.

It's like "you bring the drink, I'll bring the food".

Warez users are the ones who turn up at the party empty handed, eat all the food, drink as much as they can and leave with a couple of bottles in their pockets.

[kritikon]

Sorry...what relevance was that link you just posted? All I got was a forum about, I presume, some Mac only plugin.

I assume you use a MAc, then? You can spend double what it costs for a PC, yet $200 is too much for a good synth.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm......

[beej]

I assumed it was in reference to me mentioning Musulomo (Mac only) - he posted a link to loads of requests for a windows version. In essence, he was saying he'd love to use Musulomo if only it was available on Windows.

[Lawnmower Of The Damned]

Well Mr. Toy, don't get the impression that I blow money on anything that comes my way. That $3,000 pre-amp happens to offer a lot of value at that price.

http://www.focusrite.com/productdetails ... 7&iRange=1

It may be $3,000 but it has 40 mic pres, 40 compressors and a vintage Focusrite EQ based on the ISA series, with several new models added 3-4 times a year. It's not just algorithmic emulation or simple convolution, but dynamic convolution. It's a technology that Focusrite's business partners have patented, so they're the only legal game in town when it comes to this technology. At that price I'm getting more than enough value for my money.

I don't know what kind of music you make. Odds are that we are in very different genres with very different sets of needs. In some styles of music including most electronic music, vocals don't mean much but I'm not writing electronic music.

Furthermore, I've got more than one singer I have to worry about. A certain pre-amp might sound great on my voice, but sound like garbage on my female vocalist. She's a well trained and very dynamic singer with beautful vibrato, where-as I'm more of a screamer/death metal growler. You can see how one pre-amp would have a hard time making both of us sound nice.

[M'Snah]

I think this is a great point. I've bought lots of VSTs because the developer is active here at KVR. VSTs I wouldn't have bought otherwise for sure.

+1

[ew]

Yamaha DX-7: 160,000 units (largest selling synth in history)

Interesting, from Sound on Sound

"In a marketplace where a synth that sells a few tens of thousands of units is considered a success, one that reportedly sold 250,000 surely exceeds a manufacturer's wildest hopes. Such an instrument was the Korg M1, the widely-beloved Sample + Synthesis workstation that can rightly be called the most popular synth of all time. Released in 1988 at a UK retail price of £1499, it was manufactured until 1995 — and seven years is a very long time in music technology. Although Korg won't verify the quarter of a million figure I've just mentioned, they do tell me that 100,000 were manufactured during the first two years of the M1's life, serial number 100,000 having rolled off the production line in November 1990."

The number I gave earlier was from another source, and it seems perhaps exagerated.

I've heard the same figure from a number of sources, Jon; I'm thinking it probably is right.

ew