why are most soft synths and effects so expensive?

[eduardo_b]

hear hear eduardo
With all the free stuff it's bloody hard disciplining oneself though.
That's why i'm slowly trying to replace free gear with payware - that way the monetary investment will (hopefully) force me to stick to what i've bought.

Well, I wish you good luck. Monetary investment didn't have that effect on me, but now I'm finally finding myself trying new stuff and realizing it's no better than what I already own. This is a good thing.

[eduardo_b]

One little helper has been some trick: I don't pull the DLL into my main hosts (Logic or Cubase) vstplugin directories anymore. I just use them via Energy XT - which keeps my main VST folder clean and tidy. Just the most important things are in there.

Run this by me again. You're keeping the DLLs in your generic (Program Files) Vstplugins folder, not your host's Vstplugins folder? That wouldn't help me because all the intruments and effects are in subfolders (synths, reverbs, etc.) in the default Vstplugins folder. Everything (Live, energyXT, Chainer and so on) goes there. I'm down to self-control, which isn't all that reliable.

[Sascha Franck]

Run this by me again. You're keeping the DLLs in your generic (Program Files) Vstplugins folder, not your host's Vstplugins folder? That wouldn't help me because all the intruments and effects are in subfolders (synths, reverbs, etc.) in the default Vstplugins folder. Everything (Live, energyXT, Chainer and so on) goes there. I'm down to self-control, which isn't all that reliable.

No, I have one "generic" vstplugin folder, which is adressed by Logic, Cubase and Energy XT.
Only the "most important" plugins go there. Those that I know I will use frequently.
In addition I have another plugin folder, dedicated to Energy XT. All the test and random stuff goes there.

I only use eXT to either layer plugins or fix some Logic compatibility issues - or, to try out things.
So, while "working" those additional plugins simply won't get in my way unless I load up Energy XT and scroll into the additional folder.
Keeps things nice and clean in most situations.
In addition, deleting a plugin doesn't take as long as I don't have to restart my sequencer (Logic) or rescan my plugins (Cubase), as eXT is doing a quicker job on this as well.

[pdxindy]

$200 seems like rather little.

I paid $600 for Photoshop. Final Cut Studio costs twice that and my animation software is $3000.

If a $200 softsynth is an effective tool for work, or creative play, it easily pays for itself in no time.

I think the issue is more what a few others have mentioned. The impulse to own many such synths and then being stuck upgrading all the time and so on.

[BONES]

Sure, and my car cost me $23,000 and my yacht another $17,000 but strangely that doesn't make me think that $200 for a softsynth is cheap, even though it might give me a lot more pleasure than my yacht [which I have not set foot on in more than 2 years].

[shamann]

I saw elsewhere about your discovery of Toxic, but come to think of it, Maxx Claster's entire synth line fits squarely in good, simple, cheap.

[Red_Force]

Someone wrote us about this thread so I am coming a bit after the battle (29 pages... Dudes, chill ! )

Despite my brave attempt there is no way I can read all so I'll basically try to answer the first post.

There are cost implied in a synth, grossly spread amongst coding, design, communication, etc. that varies greatly depending on product type, method, countries... But what really makes the price of a product is rather a matter of "what the market can bare". Each one try to choose the price that says the right thing about his products and that will generate the best unit sold*margin.

That's where piracy comes in line. The real reason piracy is devastating doesn't lie in figures IMO. What is really bad with it is that it massively spreads the idea of software having *no* value. Small value would be actually quite cool. If all the public were having the idea that you can have a good synth for $10 the market would be great as the potential amount of users for a good synth is probably hundred of thousands... Or even more.

Instead of that we have a huge amount of enjoyable wankers smoking pots in front of their not yet flat screen next to a powerful PC that makes a conituous sssh through a stupidly cheap fan. The dude will generally never even think about checking if the synth he's stealing could fit in his budget. And he doesn't really know about freeware (which is supposedly of lesser quality than the warezware in his mind), doesn't make anything worth it with his cracked synth encyclopedia because he doesn't spend enough time learning any of them(there are so much !). To defend him he's probably broke (all musicans are broke) and couldn't justify spending a dim on anything he doesn't absolutely need (a part of course of all kind of things you can smoke).

Apart from that he's a good lad to spend time with

That's why when at the beginning OhmBoys was $10 for a version that was kilometers away from any other delay on the market (sorry, I don't feel in an humble day) and allready close to the version we're currently selling... it wasn't selling that much.
The day we stopped the $10 version to stick with the freshly created €79 we made a bit more money... I don't remember exactly but probably 20-30% more.

So that is the first reason of high pricing : you can't go too cheap as the community that pays (cheap or expensive, but is able to take its credit card an d buy a soft online) is too small. Even if each of them buy your product at $10 you won't make that much money.

The other big thing that raises prices is the retail market. Each time a manufacturer goes for boxes he will only make a fraction of the sales prices. The shops and distributor will take 50% at least (70 in the US)(!). This doesn't of coure include the boxes' cost or the tradeshow you have to go in if you sell anything retail. For this reason most boxed product will sell above $200 and easily more. Now if you do a 100% web sold plugin that is better that this one in your shop shelves and sell it for a way cheaper price, most people will think the shelved one is better.
Fortunately we're making progresses (thanks to this community amongst other). Magazine like CM also helped to spread the idea you could find marvels on the on-line market.

I acknowledge plugin pricing is relatively elitist. I for exemple couldn't buy myself a Symptohm:Melohman or a Cameleon 5K easily - it would be really tough. But the market is that way. We manufacturer have to deal with it like any of you...

[Sascha Franck]

Love your description of the typical warez dude, Red_Force Most likely hitting the nail straight on the head.
Unfortunately your other assumption about these folks "massively spreading the idea of software having *no* value" seems to be quite true as well.
"Why should I pay for something my neighbour is getting for free?" and so on...

[fabi]

I for exemple couldn't buy myself a Symptohm:Melohman or a Cameleon 5K easily - it would be really tough. But the market is that way. We manufacturer have to deal with it like any of you...

interesting. thank you for being so honest. i was just curious about how many licenses of symptohm you might have sold - i just had a look at the symptohm tutorial and manual download numbers - 1549 and 3223. i guess units sold will be less than that. a shame, really.

[dover666]

meh. try mine. free. forever.

[pdxindy]

Sure, and my car cost me $23,000 and my yacht another $17,000 but strangely that doesn't make me think that $200 for a softsynth is cheap, even though it might give me a lot more pleasure than my yacht [which I have not set foot on in more than 2 years].

It is just expectations in your mind (each persons mind). Coupled with your ability to make a synth yourself.

For me, $200 is not expensive in relation to other software I use professionally. More importantly, it is not expensive in relation to the return of investment.

Something like Zebra2 is capable enough that you do not need much more. add in an inexpensive host like Tracktion. A few effects items maybe. An audio interface, a controller, and a computer, and you have abilities that people would have paid tens of thousands of dollars for just a decade ago and many that far surpass what was possible then.

We are incredibly lucky the amazing tools we currently have for very little money.

[Red_Force]

i just had a look at the symptohm tutorial and manual download numbers - 1549 and 3223. i guess units sold will be less than that. a shame, really.

Last time I checked it was something like 560 units (not including PE). It's not big considering the dev cost (by far the biggest in our catalog) but it's important to note it's not bad either, just average for us. Twice this number would be a big hit for the online market.

Keep in mind than the afford mentionned 5k happy fews did it via boxes, and that four boxes at least are needed to be as rewarding (for the manufacturer) than an online one.

This said there are far more than five that passed the 5K roof imo. Nearly all are packed with large samples amount...

[LiteOn]

Hi,

Instead of that we have a huge amount of enjoyable wankers smoking pots in front of their not yet flat screen next to a powerful PC that makes a conituous sssh through a stupidly cheap fan. The dude will generally never even think about checking if the synth he's stealing could fit in his budget. And he doesn't really know about freeware (which is supposedly of lesser quality than the warezware in his mind), doesn't make anything worth it with his cracked synth encyclopedia because he doesn't spend enough time learning any of them(there are so much !). To defend him he's probably broke (all musicans are broke) and couldn't justify spending a dim on anything he doesn't absolutely need (a part of course of all kind of things you can smoke).

I even know musicians who once dreamed of a shiny career, no living a more than average life having a house, a car ... and copy any album they can get into their burners.
Anyway, what do you think that can be done to give software its value back? A sort of campaign? More coverage in magazines on this sensible issue? Do the competitors talk about at tradeshows?

cheers,
LiteOn

[Urs]

Do the competitors talk about at tradeshows?

Whenever we find time between the beers!

[dover666]

yeah, freeware is of lesser quality... maybe there are some people out there that feel that way....

there are also thousands of freeware developers out there who feel like they are doing a good thing, sharing a learning process and not trying to make a buck out of EVERY SINGLE THING THEY CAN PULL OUT OF THEIR COLLECTIVE ASSES!!!!!!!!!!