KVR Audio

birrbits · Post by **birrbits** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:25 pm

So for years I used Pro Audio 8 & 9, until fighting latency drove me a bit crazy (if anyone remembers the horrors of Wavepipe acceleration). So I started using Cool Edit, then Audition for audio work & never looked back. (Although I gave Cubasis a shot for all of 1 week)

Around a year or so ago I finally got the VST bug and started chatting on this forum, bought FLS, made some songs, happy happy. Bought a few VSTs; DK+, Sytrus, Morphing Delay and of course downloaded several freebies. Got more curious, paid Tobybear some money for Minihost, bought Console (kinda regret that I didnt go for EXT, but I had some concerns with AA compatibility).
anyway more happy. So happy I wanted to get my fellow old bandmates on the wagon. Started them out with minihost, then MAGIX Music Maker. This is of course a cheesy lil program but it reminded me how productive one can be in a straightforward environment.

So now I'm looking at new hosts, and the recent Tracktion thread prompted me to objectively look at Sonar. My very 1st thought when the demo opened was "you have to be kidding me", the prompt screen hasn't changed since Pro Audio, nor for that matter have many of the popup windows, such as instrument mapping. So my general question is "what gives Cakewalk?" I thought Sonar was a rebuild from the ground up? Also, the demo is version 4, is this still the same in version 5?

I remember feeling slightly raped the last time I paid Cakewalk money going from Pro Audio 8 to 9 only to discover very little difference (guitar tab). Granted the upgrade price this time would only be ~$150. Granted also it looks like they finally have audio editing/arranging working correctly, and of course Pro Audio didnt handle virtual instruments right out of the box. But seriously, how piecemeal is this program? This "blending" of old & new windows seems very incoherent to me.

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:34 pm

alot of the gui elements have carried over since those days(but each revision changes that more), but the audio engine has changed MANY times since the PA days. I used Pro audio 6 and 8. I personally find S5 to be all I ever need in a host. Of course yer requirements could differ from mine, and there are other good alternatives as well.

If yer used to the CW workflow the transition will be a, err, cakewalk. <pun intended, sorry>

birrbits · Post by **birrbits** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:39 pm

Stupid American Pig wrote: If yer used to the CW workflow the transition will be a, err, cakewalk. <pun intended, sorry>

I do see that advantage, and honestly I still use PA9 from time to time (when I need to tear a midi file apart). But I just get this 'Frankenstein' feeling looking at the demo. Has much changed in Sonar 5 (versus 4)?

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:17 pm

hmm, the basic layout is the same, tho Im not sure why you consider it "frankenstein". If you explain it a bit mebbe I can help you sort it out

Sepheritoh · Post by **Sepheritoh** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:29 pm

I have been a PA8 user and I can say Sonar is not even closely the same thing anymore. They kept the basic layout idea with the track view, mixer view, piano roll views. The engine and functionality is really much improved. Sadly, you might miss some things that were in PA, e.g. ability to build CALs but you would gain much more.

birrbits · Post by **birrbits** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:34 pm

heh, np, I'm just a bit put-off seeing some elements of the gui not being touched since 1998. Sure I would ascribe to the "if it aint broke, dont fix it" mentality, but these elemnts stand out pretty clearly to me as not "jibing" with the rest of the program. I am definately happy to see that the audio engine has been overhauled completely. I can't help looking at those gui elements and thinking "what, does noone there know how to re-skin them?" Are the original midi programmers long gone & noone wants to touch those elements of the source? or is Cakewalk just too lazy? I know this sounds harsh, but I have the flu

thanks

birrbits · Post by **birrbits** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:36 pm

Sepheritoh wrote:Sadly, you might miss some things that were in PA, e.g. ability to build CALs but you would gain much more.

CALs still run though? correct?

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:43 pm

I see your point birrbits, but TBH, I really hardly ever use some of the old items(old Dx fx, process audio menu, things like that) but while a face lift may be a good idea, I would rather see new development take place. The midi fx did get a new skin for S5, and many other older fx got minor updates as well(for instance the pitchshift how has MPEX stretching as an option).

torhan · Post by **torhan** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:47 pm

birrbits wrote:
Sepheritoh wrote:Sadly, you might miss some things that were in PA, e.g. ability to build CALs but you would gain much more.
CALs still run though? correct?

Yes...old ones still work.

birrbits · Post by **birrbits** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:28 pm

thanks for the feedback guys. I don't want to sound like I'm bashing Cakewalk, but when I finally decide to blow 150-200 for a host (or upgrade) I want to get that "money well spent" feeling

I'm playing with the Live, T2 and Sonar (4) demos right now.

arke · Post by **arke** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:01 am

I don't have Sonar5 but I've played with it and I gotta say its really nice overall. I've got a few minor gripes about the playlist and piano roll but other than that I really like it.

That said, I did buy FL instead for those exact reasons. But I think if I were to buy another host, it'd be quite a close tossup between Sonar and Orion ... probably Sonar.

puffer · Post by **puffer** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:30 am

I've never seen PA9, and I could be wrong about what you're referring to, but it seems your talking about the dialogue and utility windows. Aren't these mostly win32 GUI pieces? Which would make them more a function of the Windows environment. As has been suggested, the development resources that Cake has been putting into Sonar has been in other areas. One thing that won't show up in a version 4 demo is the overhaul to the MIDI editor, either in the piano roll view, or with the new integrated MIDI view in the track view. Some great work was done in this area for the new update, things some users have been clamoring for for a while. I love the GUI improvements since I started using Sonar (in ver 1 days), but some windows I just accept as the cost of doing work in a microsoft environment.

puffer · Post by **puffer** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:47 am

By the by, there is a Sonar 5 demo now:

http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/kb/kb2005298.asp

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:51 am

I went from CWPA to Sonar, and it really is a significant leap forward from CWPA. I really enjoyed the new powers under the hood and I entered a new realm of creativity with Sonar.

But if there was one carry-over from CWPA that drove me nuts though, it was how you had to process an entire clip of audio in realtime just to preview an effect! I'm not sure if they finally fixed that or not?

Rev. Jem · Post by **Rev. Jem** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:25 am

bduffy wrote:you had to process an entire clip of audio in realtime just to preview an effect! I'm not sure if they finally fixed that or not?

Long gone - insert FX in bin & press play.

Sonar, from a Pro Audio 9 perspective