KVR Audio

sonicfire · Post by **sonicfire** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:27 am

www.gigfiles.com

this guy actually sampled new korg and roland gear!! every single aspect and stuff. i cant think of this being allowed?!? please someone enlighten me?

Spe3D · Post by **Spe3D** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:36 am

Is it allowed to post a link to something not allowed?

Best regards,

Spe3d

:O)

TotcProductions · Post by **TotcProductions** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:37 am

sonicfire wrote:www.gigfiles.com

this guy actually sampled new korg and roland gear!! every single aspect and stuff. i cant think of this being allowed?!? please someone enlighten me?

I would imagine that if he's sampling new synths that are actually sample based themselves, than that's probably not too cool with the manufacturers.....looks a bit sketchy. Maybe i'm wrong though. I'll have to look into it.

peace
frank.

syncopated_silence · Post by **syncopated_silence** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:45 am

...but if he bought the synths he has the right to make any thing with them no?? even if his artistic achievements are just playing one note to cd all the way up the scale or w/e.

topaz · Post by **topaz** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:59 am

there is something REALLY dodgy about this whole site.

pages leading nowhere, registration consules :hihi

enjoy.

krushing · Post by **krushing** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:10 pm

I saw something very similar a while back but can't remember the name of the site no more...they were a pretty shoddy deal though, just single notes from every patch out of the Triton/Motif/Fantom, but I'm pretty sure quite a bit of these young hiphop fanboys fall for it thinking they get a $2000 workstation for $39.

Not to mention it's probably completely illegal.

declassified · Post by **declassified** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:16 pm

I think at least the content of the ROM soundset is copyrighted (for example on the EMU sound modules).
Apart from that, who would want to use a Triton preset without being able to modify it using the Triton?

Max el Belga · Post by **Max el Belga** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:31 pm

If you buy a guitar, it is yours and also the sounds you make with it ! Plain clear, isn´t it ? Synth or guitar are both instruments, so no difference. And if Roland or anybode doesn´t like you to sample the gear. Then they should make instruments that make no sound. (Confusius, or was it me ?)

tee boy · Post by **tee boy** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:32 pm

This 'sampling of ROM synths' issues is really grey. You will find LOADS of commercial sample products that use ROM synths as the sound source. Many even list them in the linear notes.

Yet technically it is illegal. Remember, ANY audio recording is automatically copyrighted and there for cant be redistributed without permission. Eric Persing (Spectrum) discussed this with us a few years ago, as he worked with Roland and knows their policies inside out.

But that said, Roland UK told me that there was no problem with sample original patches from their ROMsynths. So did Korg, and Yamaha. And these werent just tech people. The Roland guy reckons his job is to sort out copyright violations!

So like I say, its a grey area. The best advice I can give you is to treat any ROMsynth patches as if they were vinyl samples, ie, use them but do so with tact. If you sample the raw pcms and the all the factory presets, then you might be in for some trouble. But to use a ROM synth as the sound source for further manipulation, is probably not going to land you in too hot water.

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:51 pm

tee boy wrote:Yet technically it is illegal. Remember, ANY audio recording is automatically copyrighted and there for cant be redistributed without permission. Eric Persing (Spectrum) discussed this with us a few years ago, as he worked with Roland and knows their policies inside out.

There must be some implied license since you are obviously allowed to use their sounds on recording.

Anyway, try using your brains for once guys. I can see why companies like Roland, KORG and Yamaha wouldn't want to open up this can of worms. I wonder how many Piano, Guitar, Drums, String, Brass and Vintage Synth Raw Waveforms sounds are sampled onto their ROMs that are taken from instruments that they have not manufactured or licensed.

Of course it's a "grey area". As far as I'm concerned they are just as guilty as any one else regarding potential copyright infringments.

bleebsen · Post by **bleebsen** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:52 pm

If this *would* be illegal it would also be illegal to use the sound on ANY commercial recording. Replication is replication, it doesn't matter if it's solo or in a mix.

Since they are selling instruments and not audio recordings I'm pretty sure there is no copyright on the sounds.

IANAL, though.

Edit, P.S.: Sample libraries come with a special EULA to get this clear. You are not allowed to re-use the sounds in form of single samples but only to use them in a musical context. Sometimes you even are obliged to give credit to the sample-cd-manufacturer (I remember reading sth. like this in the vienna stuff EULA). I don't know if h/w synthesizers come with an EULA yet... ?

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:55 pm

bleebsen wrote:If this *would* be illegal it would also be illegal to use the sound on ANY commercial recording. Replication is replaction, it doesn't matter if it's solo or in a mix.

Since they are selling instruments and not audio recordings I'm pretty sure there is no copyright on the sounds.

I suppose that an argumant can be made that putting those sounds into recording is different that using them in sample CDs or other sampling instruments.

Either way, I made some comments, in my other post, as to why I doubt that they would ever open up this "can of worms". If you snatched a Bosendorfer sample off of a Roland synth who really owns the rights to it? I doubt that Roland licensed it.

Dominus · Post by **Dominus** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:02 pm

tee boy wrote: Yet technically it is illegal. Remember, ANY audio recording is automatically copyrighted and there for cant be redistributed without permission. Eric Persing (Spectrum) discussed this with us a few years ago, as he worked with Roland and knows their policies inside out.

But that said, Roland UK told me that there was no problem with sample original patches from their ROMsynths. So did Korg, and Yamaha. And these werent just tech people. The Roland guy reckons his job is to sort out copyright violations!

I sampled sounds I had made off a lot of my gear back in the day, had my E-Bay account suspended by E-Mu.

It's ok to make your own sounds and sample them, but if you want to be safe, don't name the manufacturer or sample the presets. I had to explain to E-Bay and E-Mu what I had done, and eventually just agreed not to sell those CDs anymore and they let me have my account back.

It was a shame too, I made the downpayment for my house in 3 months selling those CDs.

bleebsen · Post by **bleebsen** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:03 pm

Of course, this argument CAN be made. The question is if it's of any relevance

.

f.e. I'm pretty sure national german law says nothing about this difference: If you infringe somebodys mechanical rights in the form of a sample this is illegal, no matter if it's a sample CD or music recording. Nobody owns the mechanical rights to a synth sound though, since it's technically no recording.

An EULA *might* overrule this. Do h/w synths have one (see edit of my last post)?

yours
bleeb

bleebsen · Post by **bleebsen** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:04 pm

Dominus: I think the problem in YOUR case is that you violated E-MUs exclusive right to call something "E-MU". That's a trademark violation not copyright infringement IMHO.

is that allowed!?