how many are using sequencers and pluings today?

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VitaminD wrote: they're all fake accounts like margaret thatcher..
Internet facing CRM data is remarkably consistent across segments. You can expect 17% of the subscriber count to be either dupes or garbage accounts. That leaves around 66,500 true interest users at some point in time since the count began. I'd be happy with that figure as the true scale of the global market (i.e. people who actually pay).

The dark side? 4 - 5 times true market, say 300,000, like the man said. Seems about right to me.

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i've been through a few hardware set ups. i'm all vst now (well, there's the guitar). it's a quantum leap in production
"Most people who experiment with drugs are not lying in the streets, suffocating on their own vomit. If you want to see some of that, go to the Pub on Saturday night at closing time." ozwest

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100% software here.

Dell Inspiron 8600c, Echo Indigo DJ, Beyerdynamic DT770, Evolution MK225c, FL Studio XXL, MiniHost, PowerTracks Pro Audio, Wasp XT, DreamStation, Slayer, Eve, Eve One, PS-1, Kubik, WusikStation, ManyStation, ManyGuitar, TSW Pro, Dyad, Forte, VSC-MP1, Pristine Space Light, Goldwave, Har-Bal, Awave Studio, BeatCreator, Seamless Looper, MixMeister Pro, and assorted free plugins and effects.

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Interesting numbers, HanafiH! I think the mags like CM and FM give the impression that Everybody in the UK has a bedroom studio.

Like Jorgen, I'd have guessed numbers sooo much higher. Like 10 to 30 million worldwide, but I'm realizing that our little obsession might not be shared by eveybody.

This means that we have a heavy burden, with fewer of us, each more responsible for continually buying all that software to keep the devs healthy enough to make new toys for us. :P

Take care,

GreyLion

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jorgen wrote:Not many years ago I had a room full of hardware devices, they are now all gone mostly but I sometimes regret selling the stuff, like my Emulator II just because of its awesome cool look (I think bought it just because Depeche Mode had it...I found my emacs to be more usefull though :P) the Yamaha A3000 was my last purchase...

Noticing the extremely high traffic on KvR I cant stop wondering how many people doing it all in software with hosts/plugins theses days, as in world wide? billions? :o

cheers
jorgen
My hands are on hardware all of the time, but I'll never use it as part of my studio. I hate hardware with a passion. It is a menace to DnB production, abide REALLY fun to play with an irreplacable sound-wise.

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GreyLion wrote:Interesting numbers, HanafiH! I think the mags like CM and FM give the impression that Everybody in the UK has a bedroom studio.

Like Jorgen, I'd have guessed numbers sooo much higher. Like 10 to 30 million worldwide, but I'm realizing that our little obsession might not be shared by eveybody.

This means that we have a heavy burden, with fewer of us, each more responsible for continually buying all that software to keep the devs healthy enough to make new toys for us. :P

Take care,

GreyLion
It's worth reflecting that Logic had just 70,000 paid-up PC users at the point the PC stopped being supported - that's every user since the product launched on, historically, the 90% market share platform. There's no reason to suspect the market has in any way exploded since then, so I think that year and the year that followed were the high water mark years for sales.

CMM was 31,000 readership (always higher than copies circulated) at the highest point, and given its popularity with new users, it's circulation decline indicates the market is probably saturated. Everybody who want to do this is already doing it.

So we've moved from the era when audio devs primarily aimed to sell products to newbies, into a market where devs must sell to existing users. Given a technology refresh of three years, that's a hard market in which too few musicians or producers are making any money.

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I've been through the whole software fad and I'm happy to say that I'm back with my hardware. All of the software synths just sound soooo....muddy. I can power up my Motif and think, "why did I ever even bother with VSTs?" there is NO comparison.

I'm not speaking without experience. In the past 3 years I bought into the music software brainwashing and spent over $4500 on software/peripherals and tried just about everything on the market. I literally chucked it all in the garbage one day out of frustration. CubaseSX, Reason (+ 13 refills), SampleTank, Hypersonic, Absynth, Pro-53, Virtual Drummer, Virtual Guitarist, FLStudio, SonicSynth, controllers, soundcards, interfaces, etc. -- all gone. I don't regret it for a moment.

My new setup? Motif 8, Triton, Boss BR-1600CD, guitars, basses, microphones. No updates to buy, no wasted time getting the right drivers, no frustration with unreliable software. I just power up and go!

And judging from what little $$ I need to spend now (firmware updates are almost always free), I'm willing to bet that it's much cheaper in the long run.
_______________
Christopher

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I think there are a LOT of people who use their computer for dabbling with music pretty much the way they use it for photos and videos etc. I have plenty of friends and colleagues who seem to use software of various kinds, but very few of them use a "real" sequencer. Since we use Apple at work, a couple of folks here play around with Garageband, one fellow has Ableton Live.

However, when I talk to them about music making they generally have no clue as to what a VST is and that it's possible to use loops other than what's in the package already (much like people use the default clip art in Word).

I have also been under the impression that lots and lots of people use computers for making music with sequencers and plugins, but over the past few months I have done some (highly unofficial) research into what sort of programs people use. A lot of folks use Band In a Box and other kinds of jam tools without ever recording a single note. And a lot of people have stuff that are PC/Mac-friendly but don't really hook it up to a sequencer. For example I have some guitarist friends with Pod XTs who might have it hooked up to their PC but only to download patches etc.

Then there are programs like the Ejay amd Magix entry level packages which I think appeals to people who never buy music magazines.

Most people who use their PC for music is ripping or downloading CDs, IMHO.

That said, I don't think magazine circulation is a good indicator - there are lots and lots of mags and lots of people here (claim to) never read CM / FM, whereas SOS has more indepth stuff much way too much text :) But there are tons of other mags as well (EM, for example, and all the guitarist mags, and drummer, keyboard, bass player etc etc, and then magazines dedicated to certain genres, like mixmag, Hammer, etc ). I would assume that even though a lot of folks here are into computer music making they would also tend to read magazines related to their instrument or style. So I think the best indicator is actually how much software is sold, and how much is pirated, and how many people frequent the largest forums, and find some elegant formula, to be able to even get anywhere near the actual number of people who use sequencers.

I think most music making hobbyists will tend to buy a mag now and then and participate in one or two forums, usually related to the sequencer they use (as for me that would be looptalk and the Live forums) and perhaps one general forum like KVR.

Just my 2c, but I do agree with Hanafih. The market has matured. We now see a lot of newbies who use packages that come with their soundcards and never move beyond that, and then we see those of us who have been around for a few years and use computers for more dedicated music making, pro or not. It is also my experience that lots of pros never read the basic mags and tend to read more specialist stuff, if they read anything at all. Some folks I know just read distributor's brochures...
My Soundcloud Too many pieces of music finish far too long after the end. - Stravinsky

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cfurlin wrote:I've been through the whole software fad and I'm happy to say that I'm back with my hardware. All of the software synths just sound soooo....muddy. I can power up my Motif and think, "why did I ever even bother with VSTs?" there is NO comparison.
Remember though that lots of people have never used hardware. As for myself, the only hardware has been guitar related stuff, and being a guitarist I have always managed with just my amp and maybe a pedal or two. Switching to Guitar Rig was a no-brainer for me. I make all my music with sequencers and plugins and although I play both piano and guitar I still am amazed at how good things sound in software.

I don't think the perceived difference in sound quality keeps people away from sequencers. I can understand if people don't bother to get into computer based music making but if your music sounds muddy I'd think twice about blaming the tools. No offense but if plugins made our music sound muddy none of us would bother to hang around...

Plus for the price of your Motif I have everything I need.
My Soundcloud Too many pieces of music finish far too long after the end. - Stravinsky

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For audio recording I use both hardware and software. The software makes it way easier to record...especially with a program like Tracktion.
For making beats I've gone a bit throw back and it's paying off. I got an ASR X pro and have been making some nice gritty beats. It is actually helping my beats improve more and more. It takes the visual out of the picture and on a computer i usually get caught up in how it looks rather than how it sounds. Example on a computer if it's a hair off and sounds good i tend to quantize it anyway. While my sampler has quantize i have to be more carefull if i choose it since there's only one undo.
Anyway hardware does take up space, but there's always going to be a need for it imo. No matter how hard i try to get away from it i end up buying more and having a new love for it.
Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
-Richard M. Nixon
www.myspace.com/pmf

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kovacs wrote:Plus for the price of your Motif I have everything I need.
Dude, talk to me in 5 years when subsequent versions of Windows or Mac breaks all of your software and you had to upgrade ($$), reconfigure, re-optimize your new system for better performance. Or that new VST you just have to have won't run in your out-of-date software ($$). Or the new hardware you may need for that new OS ($$). Keep shelling out that $$.

I've had my Motif since 2001 and the only thing I've ever had to do to it is dust the damn thing. Even though I have other equipment, I could do everything on the Motif and I can use it for another 5 years without spending a dime. You could choose to use your software that long, but I know very few folks who can resist having the latest and greatest.

Also, if I ever get tired of my Motif, I can sell it. Half of the companies selling music software won't let you transfer your licenses to another person, even if you give it to them for free. At that point the software just becomes stuffing for the garbage. Wasted $$. Especially things like Reason refills. You can transfer the program, but if you invested in any Sonic ReFills, you can't sell those or give them away (13 @ about $50 each -- all useless without Reason).

100% hardware and proud of it!
_______________
Christopher

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Half of the companies selling music software won't let you transfer your licenses to another person, even if you give it to them for free.
Granted. That's why I don't buy software from companies with this policy. Plus most hosts are transferrable AFAIK (the exception being FL Studio).

That sound libraries are non-transferrable is a PITA but frankly understandable. But I don't tend to buy them anyway.

The cost of the PC is something I'd have to bear anyway since I use PCs for writing and web work, so I don't think it's fair to compare the cost of a PC to the cost of music hardware. You'd still need a PC even if you're a hardware junkie if you want to update the flash memory on your spanking shiny synth without having to lug it to the dealer (or even send it back for upgrades).

That hardware gadgets have no costs related to them is not true - they sometimes need repairs, they are replaced by new units, there are plugins and updates and expansions etc etc - I know this from experience with a Roland GR-1 synth and a Behringer FCB 1010 floorboard. Plus hardware + routing units + midi controllers/hubs will cost several times that of a computer studio setup...and you still need a recording unit.
My Soundcloud Too many pieces of music finish far too long after the end. - Stravinsky

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I wanna know how many people are using plugins without the sequencers. :hihi:

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http://www.flstudio.com/documents/81.html
there are over 65.000 paying customers and 150.000 demo downloads/ month
Don't know how up to date that figure is though.

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kovacs wrote:Granted. That's why I don't buy software from companies with this policy. Plus most hosts are transferrable AFAIK (the exception being FL Studio).
Smart move. Glad to see you aren't falling for that marketing strategy. You'll save a lot in the future is you steer clear of them.
kovacs wrote:You'd still need a PC even if you're a hardware junkie if you want to update the flash memory on your spanking shiny synth without having to lug it to the dealer (or even send it back for upgrades).

...and you still need a recording unit.
Actually, not quite true. I can update my Motif from SmartMedia and I don't need a dedicated studio computer for that. I can download the file and put it on SmartMedia from anywhere -- I usually do it from my office computer or my laptop that I use for daily commuting. Also, some companies will include ROM updates on the SmartMedia cards when you purchase them. Usually $8 or $9 bucks.

I can attach CD-ROMs, Hard Drives, and ZIP drives without the need for a computer also. In fact, my current setup supports up to 7 diffrerent devices simultaneously for storage.

No offense, but have you ever used a Motif? I don't require a separate recording unit because I can record a song as audio data right in the Motif, if I choose to. I don't need a sequencer because the Motif has one and it's pretty damn easy to use. I can record my guitars and vocals right into the Motif without using anything else -- I'd need a mic for that, but so would someone with a computer setup.

Also, computers need repairs just like hardware. I have to say that I've had to replace computer parts more often than synth parts -- in fact, I've never had to repair my Motif.

I guess what I'm saying is that the $$ issue is really moot -- I wouldn't discourage someone from going the hardware route because of it.

The only downside is that you need to fork out more cash initally to aquire the instrument. I looked though my puchase records last night and found that, indeed, I have spent less on the hardware route -- in fact, 45% of what I spent on software when I used it.
_______________
Christopher

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