is that allowed!?

[Ildon]

What about the sample sets that come from wusikstation ?

Have they been cleared ?

I asked WilliamK about this a while back, and according to him, so long as you don't sample ROM presets, it's fair game... or something like that. Either way, you have nothing to worry about with Wusikstation.

[manytone]

What about the sample sets that come from wusikstation ?

Have they been cleared ?

I asked WilliamK about this a while back, and according to him, so long as you don't sample ROM presets, it's fair game... or something like that. Either way, you have nothing to worry about with Wusikstation.

With ManyStation we allow you to use the Samples and sounds included in any composition, but you cannot resample or make a new product to sell(Sample based) from the included samples.

I think it downright wrong to resample someone elses samples unless you have permission.

Paul

[lawapa]

I'd work from a clean source. Snagging a snare from an ol' rock tune is easy. But a snare sound is so easy to grab and then when you run it through your set of plugins it's your work from start to finish. It's true no one would ever know. And most would never care. But to be legit in your pursuit do the leg work. It's means a little extra work but hey. You cover you self. You can show prof by paying your source to get the ware. Then you can copyright your work. And worry who's selling you stuff on ebay. I play by the rules, step on no one's toes, And work to build a rep where you can hold your head up. If you sample for your own use from rom based stuff no one's coming after you for that. It's to be used in music/your's or client's. You get that ride from the ownership of the synth. Start doing short cuts and the fineline can be drawn on either side of right and wrong. It's easy, it gets good, and then your compromised. Source yourself and it's all yours. Any way you want it. It is how you get better at what you do. You did the work and and enjoy the fruits with no looking over your shoulder for the house of cards to come down.

[Ildon]

What about the sample sets that come from wusikstation ?

Have they been cleared ?

I asked WilliamK about this a while back, and according to him, so long as you don't sample ROM presets, it's fair game... or something like that. Either way, you have nothing to worry about with Wusikstation.

With ManyStation we allow you to use the Samples and sounds included in any composition, but you cannot resample or make a new product to sell(Sample based) from the included samples.

I think it downright wrong to resample someone elses work unless you have permission.

Paul

Well I don't know, I barely remember what he said. Ask WilliamK about it in the Wusik.com forum. He'd know more about it than me.

[lion_cub]

What about the sample sets that come from wusikstation ?

Have they been cleared ?

I asked WilliamK about this a while back, and according to him, so long as you don't sample ROM presets, it's fair game... or something like that. Either way, you have nothing to worry about with Wusikstation.

With ManyStation we allow you to use the Samples and sounds included in any composition, but you cannot resample or make a new product to sell(Sample based) from the included samples.

I think it downright wrong to resample someone elses work unless you have permission.

Paul

Well I don't know, I barely remember what he said. Ask WilliamK about it in the Wusik.com forum. He'd know more about it than me.

I seem to recall William being a little evasive on this issue.

[Ildon]

Beats me, but it makes me wonder... if he had anything to worry about, why would he advertise the fact he has samples from other keyboards in his synth? Hmm. The only way to find out is to ask him, though.

[tee boy]

lawapa,

I dont think it is really about leg work, its about the sound. Sampling vinyl in creative ways has become a valid creative form, I dont see anything wrong with that. Take this analogy:

An artist takes a pile of magazines, cuts the pages into tiny pieces, they uses these to form a wonderful collage. Is this imoral? Ofcourse not, because the derivative work is not in anyway the basis of the artistic creation (in an aesthetic sense).

This is no different to taking tiny samples from hundreds of old vinyl breaks and using them to create amazing new beats. The samples themselves are insignificant, its the final creation that desires the credit.

NOW, if you were to just rename the magazines and sell them as your own, THAT would be imoral and highly illegal. And in the same way, stealing performances from records and selling them without clearance is equally dispicable.

There is a line, not doubt imo. Where it sits is a matter of subjectivity! But there is definately a line between what is sampling in a creative sense, and what is just outright theft.

So you see, sampling vinyl has nothing to do with being lazy. It involves a desire to experiment with a particular artistic medium. Most of the vinyl I sample personally could never be used as a replacement for a 'rock' drum hit - it is way to knacker for that. I like the sound of crunchy, noisy vinyl and I often use manipulations of this in my own sonic creations. I also use live studio recordings, field recordings, synthesized and programmed material... everything I can.

If someone wants to call that theft, then so be it, I am a thief! But I recommend they go to the ER pronto to get that bug removed They should probably then go out an examine 99.9% of commercial loop products....

[tee boy]

But then again, I think people are speaking more about the ROM's in synths than they are vinyl. I take a similar stance on this to be honest, in that I would never take anything raw from a synth and try to pass it off as my work. I would get no satisfaction out of that at all.

Then again, you are always relying on someone elses work to make you music. Be it the software devs, or the engineers who designed your gear. Maybe the previous artists whose work you call an influence. Nothing happens in a vacume. They just never passed any laws to protect thats stuff (though Id wager if they could go back and do so, they would in an instant).

[Ildon]

If someone doesn't care, go for it and sample away. If they do care, don't do it. If you don't know, don't do it. That's what I think.

[lawapa]

TeeBoy: You do have a valid point about how small a sample can be before it becomes iffy. And Vinyl does impart its own unique footprint to any sound. For me I lean toward a clean source. But I could not capture vinyl. That would limit me. If I wanted vinyl samples. I am aware this is done. But this does appear to be an area where an inventive content provider could make some money? Because samples of this type are desired if you could provide a release from liability and lisence this type of sample out one could do well? And this could also provide income to the recoding owner as well? If I had content that was say obsolete and someone offerd me a cut on lisenceing what could I loose? I'm just thinking out loud here

[tee boy]

lawapa,

Yeah, this again is a grey area. TECHNICALLY, sampling anything without permission is illegal. But in practice, I believe that most consider this exceptable. I think the line occurs when you are making the original value of the sound all but obselete.

Take this for an example:

'You sample a few seconds from a radio news bulletin. You use this in a track as is.'

This is clearly illegal and imoral imo (even though the sample is being used out of context). The recording still belongs to someone else, and you should seek permission before using it.

Now take this example:

'You sample a few seconds from a radio news bulletin, then just out a few millisecond bursts. You use these as raw waveforms in granular synthesis. The resulting textures are recorded and processed further using plugins and hardware processors.

This example is equally as illegal as the first, but I would consider this totally exceptable.


And that is my whole policy regarding sampling - using it as an artistic medium, rather than a replacement. I like to experiment with all areas, and at times the sound of vinyl is just what the doctor ordered. In these cases, I dont feel bad about sampling single hits as i use them only as part of a greater 'collage' of sound. They are not used out of convenience, so that I dont have to bother recording my own drum hits. I do this aswell!

For me, its all about experimenting with different ways of working. Sometimes limiting ones self to a single sound source can result in highly creative sessions (something that people forget these days when they have 500 VST's in their Cubase folder ).


"Because samples of this type are desired if you could provide a release from liability and lisence this type of sample out one could do well? "

This is another reason why I dont worry too much. Virtually ALL the classic breaks have been licensed (or maybe they havent!) and used on commerical sample CD's, such as Elab's Vinylistics. They are used that broadly that most consider them safe ground.

I mean, who could tell whether you got a break from a sample CD or from the original record?

Record companies themselves sell CD's featuring all the popular sampled tunes (I have several, ironically title 'Sampled'). However, these deal more with sampled hooks, and this is quite a different matter. Taking a chorus from a track to use unaltered is NOT the same as taking a hihat and processing the shite out of it.

Here is an interesting article that you should read. It sums up the industries attitude towards sampling pretty well I think:

"The album also reveals Mylo to be something of a master of the manipulated cut-up, no more evident than in the distinctive chopped and reshuffled sample in 'Rikki'. "It's a just sample that I chopped up in Recycle," MacInnes explains. "Anything that had any internal rhythm and structure, I kept on putting chops in 'til basically I just had hits. It was probably a three-second loop and by the end I had 25 constituent parts that I inputted into Dr. Rex, the loop player in Reason. Then it maps each constituent part to a different key on your MIDI keyboard, and you can play each little hit in whatever way you want. The sample's not been cleared, but apparently I don't even have to because it's so far removed from what the original record was. However, I don't yet have that officially from my lawyer, so I better not tell you what it is!"

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar05/articles/mylo.htm

And this guy uses sample MUCH more blatently that I ever would.

Btw, just for the record, I dont use sampling in my soundware productions. I consider this to be different from using sampled stuff in music. For my soundware I like to keep everything 100% clean.

[lawapa]

If I were to market anything at all this would be my mantra simply because to do other wise is inviting problems.

<For my soundware I like to keep everything 100% clean.>

A Sample unrecognizable from it's source is more oscillator than sample when used to excite your plugins to do magic. In that context you are safe from discovery. And under thoses cirumstances you are not pushing the boundaries. It's take the form of element instead of sound. While I would like for Tina Turner to say "nice and slow" for my tune I cound understand why I couldn't use it +)