KVR Audio

jmh · Post by **jmh** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:52 am

From my experience, a higher band count doesn't automatically mean higher quality. I've tried pretty much every vocoder plugin out there, apart from Clone boy - weird coincidence, Jack?

- and my experience has showed me that so far, going by the band count alone means practically nothing.

I'd say it has something to do with the featureset, combined with the accuracy of the filters (that is, both tracking accuracy and whether the typical side effects of filters impose something to the signal).

I tend to view vocoder plugins like filters - the more, the merrier. The differences, in features and how many bands and so on mean a greater variety.

There really isn't a vocoder plugin in existence - at least not yet! - that I'd consider being the best. If there was, it'd be a cross between the features Logic's Evoc and NI's Vokator, intelligibility of Starplugs Vocoder, usability of several of them, referring to having a good enough carrier generator on board... and it'd go further, allowing some further effects selectable and individually controllable with each band, it'd do tricks the old analog ones allow, such as a mod matrix style features for routing different carrier bands into different modulator bands and so on... and it'd let the user control the filter parameters on each band as well. It'd be a bigass CPU hoggin' pig of a plugin, but worth it

So, who's up for the challenge?

Urs, Torben, this means you!

Regards,

JMH

eduardo_b · Post by **eduardo_b** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:26 am

jmh wrote:From my experience, a higher band count doesn't automatically mean higher quality. I've tried pretty much every vocoder plugin out there, apart from Clone boy - weird coincidence, Jack? - and my experience has showed me that so far, going by the band count alone means practically nothing.

This is definitely a coincidence, because I just happened to download the demo of Clone_Boy the other day because the Pro version came out and I thought it worth a look. Never thought of it as a vocoder.

Funny how band count sort of got to be important by itself. What you're saying is that I could use the 64-band FL and not wonder if the 128-band version would be even better? I don't think the features differ, just the band count.

I tend to view vocoder plugins like filters - the more, the merrier. The differences, in features and how many bands and so on mean a greater variety.

That's probably why I have so many. I was playing with the Starplug one and will likely buy it, but only after they fix the pricing. I told them that they didn't need to add VAT on sales outside VAT countries, and they had to consult their tax attorney, who said I was right, and now they're waiting to have the site fixed so the tax isn't included. When this will happen is unknown.

There really isn't a vocoder plugin in existence - at least not yet! - that I'd consider being the best. If there was, it'd be a cross between the features Logic's Evoc and NI's Vokator...

As usual, I'm trying to pick my way through Vokator and figure out how to use it. As if I don't have enough other plug-ins I'm also trying to figure out.

/edit: I said Pro version of Clone_Boy, but I now realize I was thinking of Extra_Boy Pro. Or not thinking.

tony tony chopper · Post by **tony tony chopper** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:44 am

the # of bands is important, as it broadens the palette. It doesn't mean that 128 bands is 'better' than 16, but the results surely are different (more bands = more intelligible, possible with underwater effect / less bands = rougher, more noisy & robotic)

eduardo_b · Post by **eduardo_b** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:53 am

tony tony chopper wrote:the # of bands is important, as it broadens the palette. It doesn't mean that 128 bands is 'better' than 16, but the results surely are different (more bands = more intelligible, possible with underwater effect / less bands = rougher, more noisy & robotic)

That's what I thought I'd read here in another thread. But perhaps it's only true when the same vocoder has fewer or more bands, because the other variables in coding and feature sets might have as much to do with the results in various vocoders as the number of bands. In theory, more bands should give greater resolution, as you point out.

JackDark · Post by **JackDark** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:58 am

I've gotten extremely good results from using only 32 bands of the 128 in Fruity Vocoder. What everyone seems to neglect is the fact that the CARRIER matters as much as the modulator, or the amount of bands.

Using carrier fodder that is high in sibilance transferrance is the ticket.

Hint: Forget the saw wave.

The Chase · Post by **The Chase** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:04 am

If image line sold the FL native Vocoder, I would recommend that one.

eduardo_b · Post by **eduardo_b** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:20 am

The Chase wrote:If image line sold the FL native Vocoder, I would recommend that one.

Apparently they did until recently, but they did say the vocoder could be in a new mastering pack sometime this year, whatever that means.

electro · Post by **electro** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:23 am

I haven't tried Cloneboy, but as a Spaceboy user, I will say that the Elevayta plugs are the most innovative and useful plugs I have ever come across.

hoffy · Post by **hoffy** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:34 am

The Chase wrote:If image line sold the FL native Vocoder, I would recommend that one.

Sell it? Didn't they give it away free on a CM coverdisk? It might have been a feature/band-limited version, but from my memory it was fine. Mabye not worth the price for the crummy magazine, but that's not a reflection on the vocoder itself

eduardo_b wrote:Apparently they did until recently, but they did say the vocoder could be in a new mastering pack sometime this year, whatever that means.

What the f**k has a vocoder got to do with Mastering?!!?!??!?!

Anyhoot: For my money, the best vocoder is ORANGE. It takes a little coaxing to use, but when you do, its amazing

Or you could always just buy a Nord MicroModular for a couple of hundred bucks. Nice vocoder, cheap, and it does hundreds of other wicked things besides

marcouk · Post by **marcouk** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:13 am

I've never been able to get my head around using a vocoder plug. Could some kind soul give me a basic guide for using the Cubase SX vocoder? Please

sonicfire · Post by **sonicfire** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:18 am

marcouk wrote:I've never been able to get my head around using a vocoder plug. Could some kind soul give me a basic guide for using the Cubase SX vocoder? Please

start with a stereo channel, put it on top, use your voice hard panned left and e.g. a padsound hardpanned right. there you go

or was it the other way around?

LOGAN · Post by **LOGAN** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:51 am

Vokator - Bloat, Unclear, Dont like it
Akai - The Best software vocoder hands down (I used to use it on OS9)
Built-In Cubase Vocoder - Not bad, usefull, Old Sounding
Orange - No Akai on OSX so this is the one I use

marcouk · Post by **marcouk** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:08 pm

sonicfire wrote:
marcouk wrote:I've never been able to get my head around using a vocoder plug. Could some kind soul give me a basic guide for using the Cubase SX vocoder? Please
start with a stereo channel, put it on top, use your voice hard panned left and e.g. a padsound hardpanned right. there you go
or was it the other way around?

what?

soma · Post by **soma** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:00 pm

I wish more good soft synths would pack a vocoder onboard like the real ones used to do...

LOGAN · Post by **LOGAN** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:45 pm

Maybe its possible to make one with the Moog Modular VST?

BEST VOCODER EVER ?