KVR Audio

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:24 pm

Hello, Aleksey Vaneev is writing.

I have reviewed product version upgrade policy for our Voxengo commercial products. Previously our policy stated that when purchasing v1.0 the user gets all versions up to v2.9 for free. And we have followed this policy previously (several products have crossed v2.0 in the past and we have not asked existing users for an upgrade fee)... until now.

The bad side of that policy is that v3.0 (if it gets released) has to be purchased for the full price. Of course, that is not the way most software businesses work. On the other hand had we charged only a small percentage of the full price for the upgrade our revenues would be too small to justify work on a newly released major version.

So, I have decided to change this policy and turn to a more common upgrade policy: minor versions for free, new major version for a moderate upgrade price. This policy will be effective from now on and applies to all past purchases as well.

I'm sorry for the inconvenience this may have caused you.

Best regards,
Aleksey Vaneev at Voxengo.

Spyro · Post by **Spyro** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:02 am

sounds fair.

sghoughton · Post by **sghoughton** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:03 am

Actually, never realized it was any different.

steve

Paulie Phonick · Post by **Paulie Phonick** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:20 am

Aleksey Vaneev wrote:This policy [...] applies to all past purchases as well.

I'm not sure if you can do that, legally speaking. After all, people who bought Voxengo plugins also bought the right to free upgrades through two major versions - that was the part of the deal, entered by you and the buyer in the act of sale. Conditions of this bilateral deal should not be changed without mutual agreement.

Legal mumbo jumbo aside, I think you should not strictly enforce this policy on existing customers. Many won't mind this change (and would happily pay more for your work), but some may feel cheated when you tell them that "sorry, we've had a different policy when you bought the plugin, but now there's a new one and you have to pay for an upgrade that you were supposed to get for free" (those on a tight budget).

The policy change is not a problem for plugins that go above version 3, as long as the price of two major version upgrades is equal ( or less

) to the original price of the plugin. It gets more tricky for those that don't reach version 3 - existing customers would then be forced to pay for an upgrade that was supposed to be free when they were buying the plugin. Or even two upgrades, if they bought a plug at version 1.5 (for example), which would, according to the old policy, entitle them to free upgrades until 3.4 (if I understand correctly).

Be sure that I don't want to argue and mean no disrespect - this change won't affect my perception of Voxengo (as a company) in any way. It just seems to be a much more elegant thing to do if the policy change would only affect purchases made from now on and existing customers who agree with it. Forcing existing customers into this change may cause confusion and bring a little harm to Voxengo's customer friendly reputation in eyes of some people.

Just my $0.02 ...

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:37 am

Paulie, actually, I'm aware of these implications... However, I would not call them 'legal' because no money transactions were done upfront for these versions. They have more of an ethical context. That's why I'm literally saying, 'begging for a pardon'... I should have thought about this side of things a long time ago.

4tune · Post by **4tune** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:40 am

I have to say I agree with Paulie here, if you have said that you are offering one policy with the sale of a plug it is bad form to then change the policy in the direction of costing the purchaser more than they were expecting in the upgrade period. Also could not be lawful if there is no disclaimer to do so in the policy?

I think what you are proposing is fair for new purchases although I can see how this could be messy administratively to have two systems running concurrently.

I have been very happy with the excellent support you have offered for your products in the past. I wish you all the best in finding the business model that will suit voxengo and give you a stable and satisfactory income.

I just think it is better to stick with what you have agreed with at the time of transaction before, with the change coming at the end of that period for the customer.

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:46 am

4tune, actually, I believe with this new policy the overall version-to-version upgrade cost is going to be lower. But since income is going to be more predictable, I'm pretty satisfied with this.

I'm really trying to be fair both towards myself and existing users. (after all I have not released Redunoise v2.0 based on v1.4 together with this announcement

).

Reverse Engineer · Post by **Reverse Engineer** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:47 am

Which forum will the "Boycott Voxengo" thread be placed then?

J/K of course.

"I just think it is better to stick with what you have agreed with at the time of transaction before, with the change coming at the end of that period for the customer." That would be the best option though.

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:47 am

Well the way I see it is, say for instance you pay 100 $ for a plugin at v1.0 and then when you reach v3.0 you must pay 100 $ for an upgrade ... it will be very similar to paying say 50 - 60 $ for a v2 upgrade and a v3 upgrade.

I'm a Voxengo customer and I personally don't mind this change, I found the old policy unclear ...

e.g.

I bought v2.4 of a plugin, the policy could be interpreted as 3 things...

- I will receive all upgrades upto v 4.3 for free
- I will receive all versions before v4 for free
- I will receive all versions upto v 2.9 for free.

I do see Paulie's point thought, very well said. And there may be legal implications too unless the license agreement had stated that the agreement may be modified at any time.

For myself, I'm ok with the change, most other software manufacturers do this anyway

Also, the amount of support that Aleksey offers is incredible as are his plugins, so I am proud to help his company profit. Keep up the great work Aleksey!

Cheers
Fots

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:49 am

a policy is a contract, no? The customer agrees to the terms and you except the money. That contract is then final, no one party, as a matter of law, can change the terms of a contract without the agreement of the change from all other parties in the contract. As you make many single, ome on one contracts, I reckon it would be up to the other party...it is thin ice, and tbh as strong a supporter of you that I am, I really have to take a wait and see attitude here..

JeffSanders · Post by **JeffSanders** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:52 am

imho with all due respect, before you guys go on a crusade for consumers' rights, let's wait and see exactly what advancements it takes for Aleksey to call something a "paid" upgrade.

imho he's been upgrading everything at a whim right along. He could have called any of these upgrades a "version upgrade" and doesn't do that often.

I don't see a Wusik thing happening here.

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:52 am

Reverse Engineer, I had the same idea

Hink, policy is not a contract - it is a way somebody acts towards somebody.

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:56 am

I don't think we should make a big deal out of this really ... I would hate to have to pay full price again for an update (according to old policy).

I think this way makes it easier for the customer (cheaper prices but pay a little more often) and better for Aleksey (easier to continue making a living), win win situation in my honest opinion.

Cheers
Fots

Reverse Engineer · Post by **Reverse Engineer** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:56 am

Aleksey Vaneev wrote:Reverse Engineer, I had the same idea

Hink, policy is not a contract - it is a way somebody acts towards somebody.

From the standpoint of a potential customer, it all seems fine and fair to me, but i can fully understand the existing cumstomers reservations. Like i said, outside looking in it's fair, so i hope resolve can be found with those already in.

Oh, credit also for publicly announcing the change.

munchkin · Post by **munchkin** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:57 am

I suppose it depends on what you mean by 'upgrade' as opposed to 'update'. I tend to think of an upgrade as a significant development of a product rather than an accumulation of small incremental changes.

Perhaps you should consider holding back some of the new features until ready to releease a new version rather than offering them as updates. Otherwise there is little incentive to upgrade if the new feature set isn't impressive enough.

I think if you've promised to offer free updates to 2.9 then perhaps you could give only a few updates rather than 10. Save some of the new features for V3 and that way you stick to the agreement and have a quicker path to v3.

I think the difficulty will be reaching a v3 of a delay or a limiter that has such a lot of new features that it's worth upgrading to.

Voxengo commercial product version upgrade policy change