KVR Audio

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:58 am

like I say, for me it will have to be wait and see, I want very much for you to develop more products, however I will have to decide whther each new change will be worth it for me....on the otherhand, it might spur me to buy something else, that suits my needs....so I'll wait and see, but that's not negative, that's the way I am with every other software...

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:58 am

So far I've received a lot of positive e-mails about this change. And I'm happy... If somebody is unhappy then I'm unhappy too, but I'll have to live with that and possibly change this perception in the future.

Gargoyle · Post by **Gargoyle** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:58 am

Aleksey, I'm not trying to cause trouble, but I saw this on your web site, and wondered if this was a policy or a contract in your mind?

After you purchase the product you become a registered user for that product

I can see how people are a little guarded since at the time of purchase they were led to believe in one thing which now seems not to be true.
I can also see it from your point of view too, but that sentance about policy vs. contract is really quite a dodgy one IMHO.

All the best

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:03 am

munchkin, I had to change this upgrade policy because I could lose the interest in the long run (and I've never thought about it before). And since I do have some plans about newer versions (e.g. CurveEQ 3 whose feature set has been discussed on the Voxengo forums a lot), being honest to myself I had to be sure about forthcoming incomes, at least to some extent.

4tune · Post by **4tune** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:05 am

Aleksey Vaneev wrote:Paulie, actually, I'm aware of these implications... However, I would not call them 'legal' because no money transactions were done upfront for these versions. They have more of an ethical context. That's why I'm literally saying, 'begging for a pardon'... I should have thought about this side of things a long time ago.

After reading the licence agreement from one of your installers I see there is no mention of a guarantee of free upgrades to specific version numbers.

If there is no legal basis on the previous website guarantee then it seems you are quite alright to go ahead with this.

4tune, actually, I believe with this new policy the overall version-to-version upgrade cost is going to be lower. But since income is going to be more predictable, I'm pretty satisfied with this.

I'm really trying to be fair both towards myself and existing users. (after all I have not released Redunoise v2.0 based on v1.4 together with this announcement ).

If it is less for the customer then I don`t think anyone will have anything to complain about.

I was actually thinking about version number jumps, as a way around this for you but could see the PR probs with this also

Anyhow it seems you have a good attitude with this and it is very good that you are announcing this publically on a forum for discussion / feedback rather than just a sudden change on the website.

Just to let you know this has not put me off further purchases from voxengo and I wish to suppoert your business further in the future.

If as you say that it works out cheaper it is a nice little surprise anyway (even though I find voxengo prices already very good).

Any how all the best Aleksey.

fabi · Post by **fabi** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:05 am

i'm a one-product customer and i'm okay with the change. i guess aleksey will have to see if and how many get irritated because of this. so far it seems people are okay with it.

also, as mentioned above, since the upgrade policy doesn't seem to be part of the license agreement i guess that's not really an obstacle, either.

best of luck, aleksey. maybe i'll purchase from you, again in the future. voxformer is definitely a nice plug, and i'm very fond of it.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:07 am

I think it will come down to the respect Aleksey has earned, which is quite good...but there will be sticks in the mud, and they may be right...but as for me I'm not holding it against Voxengo in anyway other than not upgrading because of cost vs benefits issues...

puffer · Post by **puffer** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:16 am

I can see this becoming a real duck-and-cover thread.

munchkin · Post by **munchkin** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:21 am

Aleksey Vaneev wrote:munchkin, I had to change this upgrade policy because I could lose the interest in the long run (and I've never thought about it before). And since I do have some plans about newer versions (e.g. CurveEQ 3 whose feature set has been discussed on the Voxengo forums a lot), being honest to myself I had to be sure about forthcoming incomes, at least to some extent.

That's fair enough. I don't expect 10 updates each version. Sony ACID Pro 5 only had 3 updates and so did Cakewalk's Sonar 4. But I will only upgrade my plugins if the upgrade is worth it.

I've not bothered to upgrade to Sonar 5 because I mainly use Acid (which I anticipate is due an upgrade tomorrow.

) My point is that unless upgrades are worthwhile people tend to hold back. I have a lot of software and for financial reasons can now only upgrade if it's really worth my while.

For example, I have a lot of your plugins but will probably be selective when deciding to pay for an upgrade.

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:30 am

soundpalace wrote:I don't think we should make a big deal out of this really ... I would hate to have to pay full price again for an update (according to old policy).

I think this way makes it easier for the customer (cheaper prices but pay a little more often) and better for Aleksey (easier to continue making a living), win win situation in my honest opinion.

While the stream of free upgrades to the Voxengo plugins I own has been nice I think I would find it hard to pay the full price all over again to get version 3.0.

I can see that Aleksey needs a more secure income stream too so perhaps this major version upgrade thing would be the best all round - for users and Voxengo.

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:31 am

munchkin, your position about upgrades is fair enough as well. Of course, I'm not forcing anybody to upgrade (how can I?). As 4tune mentioned I *could* jump between versions quicker, but never desired to do so. So, it is really about making things clearer.

SuperNashwan · Post by **SuperNashwan** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:43 am

Well, you're free to call your version increments as you choose, but retroactively altering a contract is illegal, assuming your products are sold under US law. If your previous policy (and that does mean "contract" if it formed part of the agreement) was to grant a licence for several major version changes then you can't just change your mind as it suits you. If it were Native Instruments or Waves announcing such a change I bet the condemnation would be severe.
I hope people go easy on you for this, because I think your products are more than generously priced, but I don't think I'll ever be able to buy anything from you knowing you don't respect the legal agreements you've entered into.

Watto · Post by **Watto** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:11 am

akisd28 · Post by **akisd28** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:14 am

Aleksey, FWIW, I welcome this change.

fac · Post by **fac** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:33 am

I own four Voxengo plugs and I trust Aleksey entirely to do what he thinks best.

Voxengo commercial product version upgrade policy change