Somebody already gave me a suggestion to consult my lawyer (and as one of the participants said they are lawyer themselves). So, I do not think any further discussions are necessary. Probably, this is getting too far since all I did is changed policy.
Do not forget that you pay to RegSoft, Inc. that, legally speaking, resells my software. They are acting like a shop. Strictly speaking I'm responsible for my contract with RegSoft and license agreement that comes with the software package. I do not see that I've did something illegal at all.
Voxengo commercial product version upgrade policy change
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4030 posts since 7 Sep, 2002
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
Do not forget that you pay to RegSoft, Inc. that, legally speaking, resells my software. They are acting like a shop. Strictly speaking I'm responsible for my contract with RegSoft and license agreement that comes with the software package. I do not see that I've did something illegal at all.
sorry that was just plain wrong imo....nothing you said until then would of made me lose respect for you...that did...
edit: not all my respect mind you, but you slipped down a notch or two...
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4030 posts since 7 Sep, 2002
Hink, I do not see what's wrong with what I've stated... I have to defend legal side of my actions as well since various 'that's illegal' attacks started to appear. How else I can defend my position? I was saying about moral side of things already. But they do not seem to understand it.
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
I'm sorry Aleksey, I by no means want to offend you, but that last paragraph just seem to read like spin, I am not a fan of spin.
I really feel you do not need to add at the last minute besides, when you really get down to it. I see John Lovitz saying, "yeah that's the ticket, it's really RegSoft, yeah that's it, it's RegSoft." Like you've said, most people are supporting you. Your past ethics (not saying anything has changed), your fine products and your reputation speaks volumes. I think I would of left off the last part, that's all. I doubt it made a positive impact, no impact maybe, negative impact maybe...but it didn't make a good company look better...
I really feel you do not need to add at the last minute besides, when you really get down to it. I see John Lovitz saying, "yeah that's the ticket, it's really RegSoft, yeah that's it, it's RegSoft." Like you've said, most people are supporting you. Your past ethics (not saying anything has changed), your fine products and your reputation speaks volumes. I think I would of left off the last part, that's all. I doubt it made a positive impact, no impact maybe, negative impact maybe...but it didn't make a good company look better...
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4030 posts since 7 Sep, 2002
Hink, OK, understood.
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Stupid American Pig Stupid American Pig https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=4753 - KVRAF
- 7065 posts since 25 Nov, 2002 from not sure
I see no problem with aleksey doing this, just dont change the policy EVEREVEREVEREVEREVEREVER AGAIN!!!!!!! 
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- KVRian
- 895 posts since 1 Apr, 2005
Well,
I just felt I owe Aleksey to post here to the public what I've replied to his announcement by mail.
<quotation>
Hi Aleksey,
basically I don't have a problem because incorporation of new (major) features justifies that.
Furthermore I'm confident that
- when you say the update price will be "moderate" it will be in my perception, too
- there won't be an all-off-a-sudden inflation of major version upgrades
</quotation>
cheers,
LiteOn
I just felt I owe Aleksey to post here to the public what I've replied to his announcement by mail.
<quotation>
Hi Aleksey,
basically I don't have a problem because incorporation of new (major) features justifies that.
Furthermore I'm confident that
- when you say the update price will be "moderate" it will be in my perception, too
- there won't be an all-off-a-sudden inflation of major version upgrades
</quotation>
cheers,
LiteOn
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- KVRist
- 35 posts since 3 Jan, 2004 from Scotland
I have a few Voxengo plugins, and I think they're great.
I don't know anything about the legal issues, and in this case I don't care about them either.
Aleksey produces great software, is very generous with free plugins and regular free updates, provides excellent support, and comes across as a genuine, honest person.
I think the new policy is very sensible, clearer than the old one, and I hope that Aleksey can continue to make new plugins for a long time to come.
I'm sure Aleksey is acting in good faith, and in my opinion it is more important to respect this and respond in kind, than it is to worry about the strict legalities of the situation.
Cheers
Alastair
I don't know anything about the legal issues, and in this case I don't care about them either.
Aleksey produces great software, is very generous with free plugins and regular free updates, provides excellent support, and comes across as a genuine, honest person.
I think the new policy is very sensible, clearer than the old one, and I hope that Aleksey can continue to make new plugins for a long time to come.
I'm sure Aleksey is acting in good faith, and in my opinion it is more important to respect this and respond in kind, than it is to worry about the strict legalities of the situation.
Cheers
Alastair
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- KVRian
- 1298 posts since 11 Jun, 2004 from dublin
So who is going to sue Alexsey? Step up. All this legal bantering...who cares? Unless you really have plans to sue....
Give the guy a friggin' break. Voxengo is a small operation. I mean jesus, Alexsey really is 'part of the community' here. It's not like he's one of the bigger devs who don't respond to emails let alone communicate on a social level with their users on a daily basis......Alexsey does.
Ya mon! Alexsey.....RESPECT!
Give the guy a friggin' break. Voxengo is a small operation. I mean jesus, Alexsey really is 'part of the community' here. It's not like he's one of the bigger devs who don't respond to emails let alone communicate on a social level with their users on a daily basis......Alexsey does.
Ya mon! Alexsey.....RESPECT!
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
I hope you don't think I'm showing him disrespect, I am just pointing out a public relations issue that didn't seem to come across well.Meloday wrote:So who is going to sue Alexsey? Step up. All this legal bantering...who cares? Unless you really have plans to sue....
Give the guy a friggin' break. Voxengo is a small operation. I mean jesus, Alexsey really is 'part of the community' here. It's not like he's one of the bigger devs who don't respond to emails let alone communicate on a social level with their users on a daily basis......Alexsey does.
Ya mon! Alexsey.....RESPECT!
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- KVRian
- 1325 posts since 6 Mar, 2001 from London, UK
I can’t see that there’s a meaningful legal problem.
The terms and conditions of the license I just read in VoxengoSoniformer_241_WinVST_setup.exe do not explicitly state a legal jurisdiction in which the agreement is made. However the sale of the license incurs VAT at the point of sale in Europe, and thus the contract, if there is one, is made under European law and falls under the European Directive on Computer Programs and other instruments enacted in Europe.
Secondly, the undertaking to provide upgrades was made without specifying what an upgrade actually is. I would expect a European court to construe ‘free upgrade’ to mean the correction of a specific and demonstrable flaw in the software as sold under license free of charge. I would not expect a European court to uphold the notion that anything the Author might or might not create, as a novel invention, at some later date to be subject to contract of sale.
I would suggest a fair and just settlement would be that Voxengo undertakes to correct any flaws in the software purchased previously and impacted by the change in upgrade policy free of charge, but that any new or novel features be regarded according to the terms of the new upgrade policy.
And Aleksy, get a lawyer to write your shrink-wrap EULA.
The terms and conditions of the license I just read in VoxengoSoniformer_241_WinVST_setup.exe do not explicitly state a legal jurisdiction in which the agreement is made. However the sale of the license incurs VAT at the point of sale in Europe, and thus the contract, if there is one, is made under European law and falls under the European Directive on Computer Programs and other instruments enacted in Europe.
Secondly, the undertaking to provide upgrades was made without specifying what an upgrade actually is. I would expect a European court to construe ‘free upgrade’ to mean the correction of a specific and demonstrable flaw in the software as sold under license free of charge. I would not expect a European court to uphold the notion that anything the Author might or might not create, as a novel invention, at some later date to be subject to contract of sale.
I would suggest a fair and just settlement would be that Voxengo undertakes to correct any flaws in the software purchased previously and impacted by the change in upgrade policy free of charge, but that any new or novel features be regarded according to the terms of the new upgrade policy.
And Aleksy, get a lawyer to write your shrink-wrap EULA.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4030 posts since 7 Sep, 2002
Ok, just a 'last message'... You maybe know that some of the Voxengo plug-ins are being sold on Cakewalk on-line shop. Of course, Cakewalk does not have any mention about MY upgrade policies or such. So, Cakewalk shop customers have only two things at their disposal: license agreement that comes with the software, and general customer rights (like getting a refund). And these are not double standards or anything. This upgrade policy is just not a part of any legal agreement and is provided by me in my free will. Hopefully this becomes finally clear.
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- KVRian
- 1298 posts since 11 Jun, 2004 from dublin
Hink,Hink wrote:I hope you don't think I'm showing him disrespect, I am just pointing out a public relations issue that didn't seem to come across well.Meloday wrote:So who is going to sue Alexsey? Step up. All this legal bantering...who cares? Unless you really have plans to sue....
Give the guy a friggin' break. Voxengo is a small operation. I mean jesus, Alexsey really is 'part of the community' here. It's not like he's one of the bigger devs who don't respond to emails let alone communicate on a social level with their users on a daily basis......Alexsey does.
Ya mon! Alexsey.....RESPECT!
no that wasn't directed at you.
i was just skimming the thread....when i saw lots of legal talk, I responded. 
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
Meloday wrote:Hink,Hink wrote:I hope you don't think I'm showing him disrespect, I am just pointing out a public relations issue that didn't seem to come across well.Meloday wrote:So who is going to sue Alexsey? Step up. All this legal bantering...who cares? Unless you really have plans to sue....
Give the guy a friggin' break. Voxengo is a small operation. I mean jesus, Alexsey really is 'part of the community' here. It's not like he's one of the bigger devs who don't respond to emails let alone communicate on a social level with their users on a daily basis......Alexsey does.
Ya mon! Alexsey.....RESPECT!
no that wasn't directed at you.
I really like Voxengo, and I just want that to be known, I doubt anyone will sue him...I just want him to stick to his ingregity for which I do have a lot of respect for and he is.Now let's talk about what new goodies he's gonna come up with
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4030 posts since 7 Sep, 2002
HanafiH, there is simply NO mention of upgrade, update or anything like that in the license agreement for the purchased product. User support is not a part of a license agreement as well, but I do provide it nevertheless. So, it's not about written words only.