KVR Audio

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:41 pm

AFAIK TC 6000 mastering suite's limiter is the one most ME's use, provided that they have a system 6000.

Elephant is great for a lot of things but sometimes I prefer the free TL maximizer or one of those old Buzz Room free betas. After buying the multiband compressor , CP5, I use it's built in limiter quite a lot too.

For modern (read: totally killed) pop/dance/hiphop mastering I've began using elephant in the "clip" mode (no, I'm not insane). This is very effective when there's a lot of bass in the production that needs to be shaved off, literally.

Elephant does sound different in all the oversampling modes, not always the best in x4 so it's good to experiment. After the clipping elephant I insert another instance that I usually run with the EL-3 mode, tuning the release knob so that I get a nice pump that goes with the music.

Cheers!
bManic

martian · Post by **martian** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:13 pm

el mode 2 max release is usually what i use for quick and simple stuff.

regards,

OMU · Post by **OMU** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:32 pm

electro wrote:The Hardware L2 has a high end Analog front end, before the signal reaches ever the L2 algorithim. The front end is the part that the Mastering engineers probably like as opposed to the L2 algo.

Right

As for Finis... I wouldn't use it as a mastering limiter. I think it has a poor algorythm. The meters are fine though. Maybe as a track limiter when mixing.

mark4man · Post by **mark4man** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:15 am

OK...here we go...

Test server is here:

http://www.moonjams.com/musiclinks1.htm

The snippets (as .wma files), in order, from top to bottom are:

My Fantasy (unprocessed)
My Fantasy (Precision Limiter)
My Fantasy (Elephant)

Tell me what you think, everyone...this is not "slam to the max" land...this is a jazz rock number w/ a peak RMS of about -6dB; & an average RMS around -12dB. As I said before, the overs (which are of the moderate variety) do not occur until the vocals & bass drop in, after the drum & piano intro (which makes it a pretty good test piece.)

Thanks,

mark4man

multree · Post by **multree** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:43 am

well.... the file format makes it quite impossible to judge..............

sorry but for file compersion I would've needed files to download to quickly change between them...

as it is now I don't really hear much difference at all... well given that it takes about 20seconds to load the new song - and by that time I have forgotten how the old one sounded...

it's not like the differences are huge

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:20 am

mark4man, I suggest you to upload WAV files. Audio file compression affects the sound too much. In the end we may end up hearing audio compression effects - not the difference between limiters.

DannyZ · Post by **DannyZ** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:55 am

"I’m not insane, it’s 2006 over here and nobody buys this L2 poop."
He he.
Almost every mastering engineer is still using it. Many of them consider it better then L3. I find it very good also.
The other versions I heard of being used among them were PL and Elephant and sometimes the Sony Oxford and RML one.

Its true, almost every semi-pro studio (not just mastering) has at least one L2. I have attended tons of sessions with very well known mastering engineers and I can assure you that L2 is used only in so called generic sessions (when there is no time or money or when nobody gives a flying you know what etc). Very often, I saw like three or even four super high end compressors (often custom made) running super hot signal into something like this:
http://www.requisiteaudio.com/products/l2m/index.html

BTW I’m myself using three compressors during tracking. Here is my preferred chain for R&B vocal sessions: Rode K2 (I know its not really good by itself) into Great River, into Trekker, into Compellor323a, into DBX160 (sometimes I change this order) and from now on the SLAM! Is always slammed somewhere there in the chain

... Also, George Massenburg, who is very much against all this loudness war, is routinely using 24 to 30db of compression during his tracking sessions

(yes you heard me right 24 to 30db) .
Also, I witnessed first-hand some of the production stages for Phil Collins soundtrack “Look Through My Eyes” that was used in “Brother Bear” animation movie. There was simply mind-boggling assembly of compressors. All analog, all very, very expensive and the sound was so even and hot that I don’t believe there was anything left to do for any kind of limiters. I think it is time somebody design a compressor plugin with three or four stages of compression where you can specify different attack/release/threshold/color values for every stage (all in a single interface) and I absolutely don’t care how it is going to kill my CPU. Dual limiter plugin would be sweet to. OK, I’m falling asleep again... It was a very busy sunday

...
Thanks

OMU · Post by **OMU** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:11 am

This L2M is an entirely different animal...

Eric Sundance · Post by **Eric Sundance** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:53 pm

Quote from Requisite Audio:

The L2M is our "up-dated" take on the legendary LA-2A, Electro-Optical tube limiter.

Perhaps the most notable performance feature of this premium quality device is its absolutely stable frequency response while limiting. Corrective EQ following this limiter is simply not required as with most limiters. Your work stays intact just as you need it to.

WOW!!! Can it be done digitally? BTW Very interesting thread.

OMU · Post by **OMU** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:17 pm

Not in the next couple of years I think. But I would like to be wrong

Eric Sundance · Post by **Eric Sundance** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:20 am

What about Buzz Room is it any good? How does it compare to let's say waves, or Elephant, w1 etc

mark4man · Post by **mark4man** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:20 am

OK...

Took Aleksey's advise & placed .wav files on the site:

http://www.moonjams.com/musiclinks1.htm

Tell me how these sound.

mark4man

electro · Post by **electro** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:10 am

DannyZ wrote:
"I’m not insane, it’s 2006 over here and nobody buys this L2 poop."
He he.
Almost every mastering engineer is still using it. Many of them consider it better then L3. I find it very good also.
The other versions I heard of being used among them were PL and Elephant and sometimes the Sony Oxford and RML one.
Its true, almost every semi-pro studio (not just mastering) has at least one L2. I have attended tons of sessions with very well known mastering engineers and I can assure you that L2 is used only in so called generic sessions (when there is no time or money or when nobody gives a flying you know what etc). Very often, I saw like three or even four super high end compressors (often custom made) running super hot signal into something like this:
http://www.requisiteaudio.com/products/l2m/index.html

BTW I’m myself using three compressors during tracking. Here is my preferred chain for R&B vocal sessions: Rode K2 (I know its not really good by itself) into Great River, into Trekker, into Compellor323a, into DBX160 (sometimes I change this order) and from now on the SLAM! Is always slammed somewhere there in the chain ... Also, George Massenburg, who is very much against all this loudness war, is routinely using 24 to 30db of compression during his tracking sessions (yes you heard me right 24 to 30db) .
Also, I witnessed first-hand some of the production stages for Phil Collins soundtrack “Look Through My Eyes” that was used in “Brother Bear” animation movie. There was simply mind-boggling assembly of compressors. All analog, all very, very expensive and the sound was so even and hot that I don’t believe there was anything left to do for any kind of limiters. I think it is time somebody design a compressor plugin with three or four stages of compression where you can specify different attack/release/threshold/color values for every stage (all in a single interface) and I absolutely don’t care how it is going to kill my CPU. Dual limiter plugin would be sweet to. OK, I’m falling asleep again... It was a very busy sunday ...
Thanks

Heavily compression/limiting of individual tracks seems to be the only way to compete in the loudness wars.

Somebody needs to do something to reverse it.

kilroy · Post by **kilroy** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:52 am

mark4man wrote:OK...

Took Aleksey's advise & placed .wav files on the site:

http://www.moonjams.com/musiclinks1.htm

Tell me how these sound.

mark4man

I'd go with the original.

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:25 pm

mark4man, differences are too small to judge here. They basically sound all equal. The only difference I can hear is how peaks are handled (and there are not many of them - three or four for the whole clip). I can hear the difference mainly at the end of this clip where level increases and limiter kicks in. But even there it's hard to judge.

Elephant vs. PL...Is PL more transparent ???