Sonar Mixer snapshots ???

[crimsonwarlock]

OK, so there is something in Sonar called 'snapshots'. But from the explanation in the helpfile it seems it is meant to make drastic mixer changes at certain points in the track time. However, I'm looking for 'mixer snapshots' that let me save a certain mix and then try another mix, save that as well, and then A-B'ing the different mixes to hear what works best.

Is there any way to do this in Sonar ?

[crimsonwarlock]

Either nobody has a clue, or there are no Sonar users around... or what I ask is not possible in Sonar, but in that cas can someone please confirm it.

[kmonkey]

I am not trying to be a "smartie" but you can always bounce or export (or call it what you like) tracks then you can do some arranging in your fav wav editor AND then you can A-B-C-D your mix from there in to finest details. Between bars, beats etc...

[crimsonwarlock]

I am not trying to be a "smartie" but you can always bounce or export (or call it what you like) tracks then you can do some arranging in your fav wav editor AND then you can A-B-C-D your mix from there in to finest details. Between bars, beats etc...

Your right, a whole lot of work that will seriously break down my workflow. Mixer snapshots (any decent hardware studio console with automation has this feature) are meant to be used DURING mixing. Being able to save a mix and try something else is the whole point of this being available DURING the mixdown session.

Samplitude does have this (to my opinion very logical) feature but I cost twice as much as Sonar Producer. However, if Sonar does not have this option it might actually move me towards a Samplitude purchase

But damn, 999 Euro is a big pile of cash

[lfm]

Why not simply Save As for few different projectnames -mix1.cwp -mix2.cwp.

And you can have many projects open in workspace at the same time(just check this option). So just switch to the other one and do the b-test.

I have not done this, so you might find out for yourself whether the "copy to project folder on import" should be used or not, not to double all audio and everything. I really don't know if that copy thing is used when you do save as, and have per project folders.

I read a bit about snapshots yesterday when I saw your post. And I don't think it's a biggie at all. The automation stuff is there which is continuous. Taking snapshots was how it worked when I had a portastudio and you say mixing consoles has this also. I get the feeling this is something that was there before the continuous stuff came around.

But really, as said already, the bounce to tracks thing is so quick and easy to use. To compare mixes, just compare bounced mixes. Solo one or the other.

But still it would be a good thing to be able to do a save as for all automation in a project, and be able to recall them separately.

[kritikon]

I don't know Sonar at all well, but I thought I'd chip in anyway.

Rendering whole mixes is not at all what he wants - that would be a real pain in the arse to do. If it doesn't do snapshots - somebody mentioned alternate projects saved with different mixes - this is what I do with Cubase. Maybe I missed it in SX (there's so much to miss) but I've never found snapshots in that host either...seems to have been lost on the way to somewhere (no idea where Steinberg are going though...?). Cubase VST used to have mixer snapshots. It was a superb feature that I used all the time - you could snapshot individual channels or whole mixes etc. Better to use snapshots than have to use individual automation for every parameter you want to tweak. And the whole point of snapshots is that you don't have to use alternate projects...you can snapshot between mixes as many times as you want within the same mix.

Have other hosts lost this too? Or are they just buried under a big pile of fluff? I'm with CW...snapshots should be a must-have feature. It was one of the things that enabled me to get really creative with mixing and sold me on the idea of going mostly s/w - one of the things that eased the pain of getting rid of my rather pretty and heavy, but nice mixer. It was either go s/w and utilise the nifty feature of snapshots or upgrade to a fully motorised or digital desk (price precluded motorising, and I don't like most digital desks anyway).

Sorry I can't help you with Sonar - but I'll re-ask the same question for SX - where are the snapshots?

[crimsonwarlock]

Kritikon, you nailed my sentiments exactly. Saving projects (no matter in what way) is really getting in the way of what you can do with real mixer snapshots. A good mixer snapshot system (like in Samplitude) puts ALL mixer settings AND mixer automation into a memory that you can recal.

Let me explain why 'other' solutions won't work: let's say you have made a mix but are not completely satisfied with it. There are some good things in there but for some reason it doesn't glue completely. You make a snapshot of your complete mix. Then you either zero/center everything or start with the previous mix and start tweaking the hell out of it. When you get something usefull again you save it to a second mixer snapshot. Now here is where it starts working. Because you can A_B the two mixes (or more) with a flick of a switch you can instantly start building a complete new mix based on the previous mixes and get all the good stuff together. This is why it needs to be simple switching DURING the mixing sessions. While A-B'ing the previous mixes you need access to the actual mix.

If you want to get professional mixdown results, snapshots are a must (as any serious music producer will tell you).

The thing with Sonar (as far as I can see) is that it actually has mixer snapshots, but those are static snapshots of the mix that you can switch using mixer automation, to make certain drastic changes during the song. So first it doesn't save automation for a mix and second it is not a list of snapshots you can recall during mixing sessions.

[lfm]

The thing with Sonar (as far as I can see) is that it actually has mixer snapshots, but those are static snapshots of the mix that you can switch using mixer automation, to make certain drastic changes during the song. So first it doesn't save automation for a mix and second it is not a list of snapshots you can recall during mixing sessions.

It rather complicated procedure they made in Sonar in my opinion. They were still into the automation side of it, not the manual that you are looking for.

I think just marking a number of tracks, rightclick and save as snapshot or press the snapshot button would do it. And a similar recall thing.

It would certainly be a nice feature. I will put it on feedback to Cakewalk for Sonar. Everybody that likes the idea should forward it to Cakewalk.

[crimsonwarlock]

It would certainly be a nice feature. I will put it on feedback to Cakewalk for Sonar. Everybody that likes the idea should forward it to Cakewalk.

I guess I have to start visiting the Cakewalk forum then

[martian]

If you want to get professional mixdown results, snapshots are a must (as any serious music producer will tell you).

more likely: if you want professional mixdown results, audition you mixes through many different speaker systems.

personally i dont see the big deal with 'mixer snapshots', i can appreciate some find it useful though.

but for me it wouldnt overcome the natural loss of objectivety when exposed to one mix/song/track for long periods. so for alternate mixes im happy with 'save as', and for instant a/bs exporting and comparing in another project, where you can set the volumes equal and compare to many other mixdowns.

Sorry I can't help you with Sonar - but I'll re-ask the same question for SX - where are the snapshots?

as you probably know already you can save/load all the mixer settings (excluding midi), but im assuming thats not the same thing? maybe fx and automation arent included?

regards,

[crimsonwarlock]

as you probably know already you can save/load all the mixer settings (excluding midi), but im assuming thats not the same thing? maybe fx arent included?

I didn't know that. I'm just trying Sonar to see if it will fit my way of working so there is still a lot for me to find out (hence my question here). I'll take a look at what you suggest, it might be a useable solution to my request. Thanks for the suggestion.

[martian]

as you probably know already you can save/load all the mixer settings (excluding midi), but im assuming thats not the same thing? maybe fx arent included?

I didn't know that. I'm just trying Sonar to see if it will fit my way of working so there is still a lot for me to find out (hence my question here). I'll take a look at what you suggest, it might be a useable solution to my request. Thanks for the suggestion.

sorry, i was talking about sx.

i hope you find a solution though, as i said i can apreciate everyone works differently and it'd be of use to many.

regards,

[martian]

as you probably know already you can save/load all the mixer settings (excluding midi), but im assuming thats not the same thing? maybe fx and automation arent included?

regards,

just checked this, it seems fx are include but automation isnt (unless there's a setting in prefs).

also just re-read your post and realised i forgot to mention that individual channel settings are copy/pasted/saved easily too, with the little copy/paste icons at the bottom left of each channel (something i find very useful), or alternatively saved/loaded with a right click like the entire mixer settings.

its all been the same since sx1 as far as i remember.

[kritikon]

yes, you can do that within SX...but that's not the most useful bit about snapshots. To me the feature that made it a must-have was the instantaneous changes - just like a program change for the mixer, basically. Rather than simply using it to compare alternate mixes, you could use it to switch between mixes for actual mixing - if you want completely different settings for the chorus, verse or any bits inbetween, you can flip between them and save them as part of the mix. From what I can see of SX that facility has gone by the wayside - you have to recall mixer settings from the drop-downs - no apparent capability to program change them and save them as part of the mix.

I used it often within VST5.1 when going into things like a breakdown - where I tend to use lots more heavy FX - you just flip the snapshot, and the breakdown instantly has all your FX settings, Eqs, channel faders etc moved. You can do that with automation, but it's alot more long-winded and definitely less elegant. I'd have maybe 3 or 4 different snapshot settings within a mix that I'd flip between and then use that for the final render.

I may have just missed it somewhere in the manual...but I've never found any way of recalling seamless mixer changes without going through all the automation channels and tweaking them (which usually means doing it individually for every different setting)...not my idea of ease of use or speed.

I know you can copy and paste automation lanes, but it still is alot less elegant. Seems like most digital mixers have the ability - can't understand why something like SX has fallen behind on it - automated mixing should be unbeatable in s/w...but VST versions were superior to SX in that respect (although the individual automation is better...)

[martian]

ok, gottya. lucky i dont require this.