Yamaha to consolidate Steinbergs product range

[pquenin]

a Nuendo product line with four versions for all sequencers. All will have the Nuendo audio engie, probably the best existing. They will vary through the feature sets from entry level, semi professional, music production and professional like ProTools.

What is the difference with the actual stuff ? Cubase already have the Nuendo engine :
- Nuendo entry level = Cubase SE
- Nuendo semi pro = Cubase SL
- Nuendo music production = Cubase SX
- Nuendo professional = Nuendo

[bduffy]

Two conclusions: there will be no further Steinberg instruments, second the product line is being subsumed into pro audio hardware integration. Goodbye Cubase for the home/ prosumer users. Guess the fanboys are going to have to get their bugs fixed for the final cut.

I doub they're just going to ditch the prosumer market...that is their market!

Neither do I, I just don't think they're going sail flagship Steinberg into it. Something a little more silicon based. Something you can count onto the ships from Japan.

Interesting...perhaps! They do have the Cubase/System|4 package..who knows.

[HanafiH]

Two conclusions: there will be no further Steinberg instruments, second the product line is being subsumed into pro audio hardware integration. Goodbye Cubase for the home/ prosumer users. Guess the fanboys are going to have to get their bugs fixed for the final cut.

I doub they're just going to ditch the prosumer market...that is their market!

Neither do I, I just don't think they're going sail flagship Steinberg into it. Something a little more silicon based. Something you can count onto the ships from Japan.

Interesting...perhaps! They do have the Cubase/System|4 package..who knows.

It’s worth considering how the big three hardwarers have responded to the challenge of audio software.

Well, Roland is Roland is Roland. It just does whatever it takes to ship those dratted rom blocks in whatever tin the current fashion of the day demands. The computer is a neat multicoloured add-on to the rom block tin, that allows the rom block to be browsed in ever more creative ways. End of strategy.

Korg, it’s more complicated. They tried to be first, in like Flynn with the OASYS PCI. Fingers cannot count the millions of dollars Korg haemorrhaged into developing OP, only to release it into a market already replete with Creamware, and with UAD and Powercore just around the corner. OASYS PCI was streets ahead of everything else in terms of sound quality but not five times the price better. And that one still rankles I’m sure. OASYS Workstation is at least $2000 overpriced, and it looks like Korg still haven’t found the plot. At the other end of the rainbow are the legacy softs – well yes – why let somebody else make the clones and get ripped off black and blue by the pirates when you can do it yourself and get at least some return. But it doesn’t add up to a strategy. It’s a marketing position that almost sits up and works, but Korg are getting greedy on the price side, and getting too familiar at dumping critical parts of their product line – for example EXBSCSI – when the accountants say so. Trouble lies ahead particularly if the current NAMM crop lands on the market like an overpriced, over spun lead balloon.

And then there’s Yamaha. Transfixed with hatred at the very thought of a single solitary Yen being lost to piracy, but incapable of ignoring the sudden and unexpected ballooning of a whole new market. And what exactly have they done with Steinborg in the year of ownership? Permeated a strictly software product with lines of attachment to the world of hardware, that’s what. A product line of mixers, messers-about and music machines all subtly converging on the notion of a distributed hardware production environment, at the centre of which the computer sits like a spider. Now that's what I call a Yamaha build quality strategy. NI Kore is a ranch-bet that’s the way the hardcore will eventually drag. Who cares about Cubase when you have consoles to sell, particularly as the conviction that computers can do it all is rapidly evaporating into a wilderland of fanboys, geeks and, let’s face it, freeloaders?

You see, the big fat gaping hole in Yamaha’s product line was never Cubase, it was the hole left vacant by the DSP Factory. If Yamaha wanted Steinberg for a native solution, where is the Yamaha RME? When it comes, and it will IMHO, it will incorporate the biggest bloodiest and most damnably effective dongle you’ve ever seen. Steinberg is a good start on the road to a Yamaha closed solution. The fight with Cakewalk is over, and Cakewalk has won. Goodbye Cubase. Goodbye Fanboys.

[AndrewW]

As far as 4 levels of Sequencers - that's cool. As mentioned above, we already have that in a way. As far as Plugins - if Yamaha would put their technology into plugins, like Analog Modeling, Acoustic Modeling etc and bundle it with Cubase/Nuendo that would just great. Vocaloid is another Yamaha-only VSTi technology. Put that into Cubase, along with Melodyne like editing - Now we have something very, very, very special.

Yamaha and Steinberg - it maybe a good combination indeed.

[bduffy]

It’s worth considering how the big three hardwarers have responded to the challenge of audio software.

Well, Roland is Roland is Roland. It just does whatever it takes to ship those dratted rom blocks in whatever tin the current fashion of the day demands. The computer is a neat multicoloured add-on to the rom block tin, that allows the rom block to be browsed in ever more creative ways. End of strategy.

Korg, it’s more complicated. They tried to be first, in like Flynn with the OASYS PCI. Fingers cannot count the millions of dollars Korg haemorrhaged into developing OP, only to release it into a market already replete with Creamware, and with UAD and Powercore just around the corner. OASYS PCI was streets ahead of everything else in terms of sound quality but not five times the price better. And that one still rankles I’m sure. OASYS Workstation is at least $2000 overpriced, and it looks like Korg still haven’t found the plot. At the other end of the rainbow are the legacy softs – well yes – why let somebody else make the clones and get ripped off black and blue by the pirates when you can do it yourself and get at least some return. But it doesn’t add up to a strategy. It’s a marketing position that almost sits up and works, but Korg are getting greedy on the price side, and getting too familiar at dumping critical parts of their product line – for example EXBSCSI – when the accountants say so. Trouble lies ahead particularly if the current NAMM crop lands on the market like an overpriced, over spun lead balloon.

And then there’s Yamaha. Transfixed with hatred at the very thought of a single solitary Yen being lost to piracy, but incapable of ignoring the sudden and unexpected ballooning of a whole new market. And what exactly have they done with Steinborg in the year of ownership? Permeated a strictly software product with lines of attachment to the world of hardware, that’s what. A product line of mixers, messers-about and music machines all subtly converging on the notion of a distributed hardware production environment, at the centre of which the computer sits like a spider. Now that's what I call a Yamaha build quality strategy. NI Kore is a ranch-bet that’s the way the hardcore will eventually drag. Who cares about Cubase when you have consoles to sell, particularly as the conviction that computers can do it all is rapidly evaporating into a wilderland of fanboys, geeks and, let’s face it, freeloaders?

You see, the big fat gaping hole in Yamaha’s product line was never Cubase, it was the hole left vacant by the DSP Factory. If Yamaha wanted Steinberg for a native solution, where is the Yamaha RME? When it comes, and it will IMHO, it will incorporate the biggest bloodiest and most damnably effective dongle you’ve ever seen. Steinberg is a good start on the road to a Yamaha closed solution. The fight with Cakewalk is over, and Cakewalk has won. Goodbye Cubase. Goodbye Fanboys.

Yeah....I'm getting Deja Vu here - you work for/in marketing, correct? This is a little hardcore for me. (Don't get the fanboy comments either.)

[AndrewW]

Another idea -
If Yamaha did a new version of DSP Factory - all comps, EQs, Multi-FXs etc. and coded it so we can use it like we use UAD1 plugs - That would be Cool !!!

[bduffy]

As far as 4 levels of Sequencers - that's cool. As mentioned above, we already have that in a way. As far as Plugins - if Yamaha would put their technology into plugins, like Analog Modeling, Acoustic Modeling etc and bundle it with Cubase/Nuendo that would just great. Vocaloid is another Yamaha-only VSTi technology. Put that into Cubase, along with Melodyne like editing - Now we have something very, very, very special.

Yamaha and Steinberg - it maybe a good combination indeed.

From what I've seen of Yamaha VST plugins, they can keep 'em.

[Left Headphone]

I don't get it... Cake has a partnership with Roland. We may see Roland take over or merge with Cake in a similar deal as Yam and Stein. The cubase line is getting a Nuendo face lift. I think its a smart move by Yam.
Cubase users might get a low cost update to the Nuendo line...

[ericj23]

jesus what paranoid drivel

"Transfixed with hatred at the very thought of a single solitary Yen being lost to piracy, but incapable of ignoring the sudden and unexpected ballooning of a whole new market." - err very emotive but alas entirely made up

yamaha have seen how logic has been used to sell macs and want to make it a direct challenger - ie beef up the vst instruments

but they dont have computers to sell - they want to sell consoles, synths etc

so what will happen is not some nonsense about cubase being linked to some hardware dongle - a little bit of subtlety please - cubase already has the ability to use external instruments as vst and this will be improved but particularly for yamaha ones - so yes the o2x (or whatever it is called) will be like the new apogee thing for logic - integrated at a fundamental level within the program

and all yamaha kit (synths etc) you buy will come with a cubase light with similair levels of integration - with reasonable upgrade prices

but cubase will exist - there will just be lots of menus with stuff about yamaha kit all over it - essentially both product lines will advertise each other

the only negative side i can see is that some of the development teams time will be spent updating yamaha integration rather than updating the main product - and what with 64 bit OS and intel macs coming the borgs will have a lot of prgramming on peoples plates

whats that you say steinberg havent done anything with cubase for at least a year - i wonder why ?

summer namm anyone ?

[ghost666]

Whatever they do I hope they code some better bundled/builtin plugs?
Oh to have something like the Logic ones - they just kill the SX/Nuendo abortions.
Just my humble opinion of course!

[woc53]

People on this board are too damn shy and mousy.

[Uncle E]

What is the difference with the actual stuff ? Cubase already have the Nuendo engine :
- Nuendo entry level = Cubase SE
- Nuendo semi pro = Cubase SL
- Nuendo music production = Cubase SX
- Nuendo professional = Nuendo

The differences between the versions as they are now are pretty ridiculous, though. For example, Cubase SL would be fine enough for most people except for the single small but very important detail that it doesn't have a proper mixing interface. What I'm hoping is that Nuendo Semi Pro will actually be SX while Nuendo Music Production will be SX bundled together with all the plugs because there really shouldn't be anything between SX & SE.

[egbert]

the current fashion of the day

My god - you snuck in a triple tautology there! I dips my lid.

Interesting analysis - although there are things we aren't privy to - eg Steinborg may have some conditions on their ownership. They may - for example - have said that under no circumstances may Charlie be led naked through the streets in front of the fanboys if there are more than 1000 bugs in any new release. Stuff like that.

I doubt that Cubase on 3rd party hardware is going away. Integration with hardware (eg higher end audio interface with control surface) is probably something that is more oriented toward the semi-pro and pro markets. Having a large base of lower end users, a proportion of whom will graduate to your more expensive system, is a good thing marketing wise - this kind of segmentation happens with all kinds of software.

Take plugins - Cubendo is the gold standard for compatibility of as VST plugin. Testing compatibility for other hosts with their own quirks come later. If the total market share of Cubendo shrinks to a fraction of the current size 1) the viability of VST as a marketable format comes into question and 2) whatever hosts the software only people are using will become more influential. I don't think retreating to a high end only world is an option for Steinborg.

[kritikon]

I wonder what the opposite to "fanboy" is? "Hateboy"? Because the hateboy comments are just a silly as any fanboy ones. Seems the hateboys have a bigger agenda than any fanboy. And you call us obsessed?

I've used Cubase for 15 years or so. I like it. If it goes off the market, so what? I'll use the present version I've got until such a time as the new features on other hosts suit my needs more. Then I'll change to a different host some many years in the future. Ain't no skin off my nose apart from the extra expense of buying a new host. It's just another tool I use to make my music.

Cakewalk/Roland. Tracktion/Mackie. Yamaha/Steinberg. Logic/Apple.

You think exactly the same doesn't apply to any host you use?


Do I want to be forced to spend more money to get into a host attached to a h/w mixer or whatever? Not really.
Would it destroy my world? ...in fact it might be the spur to get me back into the world of physical consoles etc - TBH, I loathe mixing with a mouse. I like the capabilities it has, but it's a horrible way of mixing.

Gloat all you want Mr hateboy...I don't give a toss. You'll get more satisfaction than I'll get distress.

And anyway...sounds somewhat like the usual hyperbole/myth/smoke and mirrors, as usual. I take it with approximately 37 grains of salt.

[Cosmic Bandito]

Two conclusions: there will be no further Steinberg instruments, second the product line is being subsumed into pro audio hardware integration. Goodbye Cubase for the home/ prosumer users. Guess the fanboys are going to have to get their bugs fixed for the final cut.

I doub they're just going to ditch the prosumer market...that is their market!

Neither do I, I just don't think they're going sail flagship Steinberg into it. Something a little more silicon based. Something you can count onto the ships from Japan.

Interesting...perhaps! They do have the Cubase/System|4 package..who knows.

It’s worth considering how the big three hardwarers have responded to the challenge of audio software.

Well, Roland is Roland is Roland. It just does whatever it takes to ship those dratted rom blocks in whatever tin the current fashion of the day demands. The computer is a neat multicoloured add-on to the rom block tin, that allows the rom block to be browsed in ever more creative ways. End of strategy.

Korg, it’s more complicated. They tried to be first, in like Flynn with the OASYS PCI. Fingers cannot count the millions of dollars Korg haemorrhaged into developing OP, only to release it into a market already replete with Creamware, and with UAD and Powercore just around the corner. OASYS PCI was streets ahead of everything else in terms of sound quality but not five times the price better. And that one still rankles I’m sure. OASYS Workstation is at least $2000 overpriced, and it looks like Korg still haven’t found the plot. At the other end of the rainbow are the legacy softs – well yes – why let somebody else make the clones and get ripped off black and blue by the pirates when you can do it yourself and get at least some return. But it doesn’t add up to a strategy. It’s a marketing position that almost sits up and works, but Korg are getting greedy on the price side, and getting too familiar at dumping critical parts of their product line – for example EXBSCSI – when the accountants say so. Trouble lies ahead particularly if the current NAMM crop lands on the market like an overpriced, over spun lead balloon.

And then there’s Yamaha. Transfixed with hatred at the very thought of a single solitary Yen being lost to piracy, but incapable of ignoring the sudden and unexpected ballooning of a whole new market. And what exactly have they done with Steinborg in the year of ownership? Permeated a strictly software product with lines of attachment to the world of hardware, that’s what. A product line of mixers, messers-about and music machines all subtly converging on the notion of a distributed hardware production environment, at the centre of which the computer sits like a spider. Now that's what I call a Yamaha build quality strategy. NI Kore is a ranch-bet that’s the way the hardcore will eventually drag. Who cares about Cubase when you have consoles to sell, particularly as the conviction that computers can do it all is rapidly evaporating into a wilderland of fanboys, geeks and, let’s face it, freeloaders?

You see, the big fat gaping hole in Yamaha’s product line was never Cubase, it was the hole left vacant by the DSP Factory. If Yamaha wanted Steinberg for a native solution, where is the Yamaha RME? When it comes, and it will IMHO, it will incorporate the biggest bloodiest and most damnably effective dongle you’ve ever seen. Steinberg is a good start on the road to a Yamaha closed solution. The fight with Cakewalk is over, and Cakewalk has won. Goodbye Cubase. Goodbye Fanboys.

I think you've possibly nailed it(or at least made some very observant assesments from a marketing standpoint)...

Although you're shure to piss off many cubase users by caling them fanboys (it a lttle extreme term in this case), it's very possible that they're the next Logic-PC users (but they have some time). That is of course, unless they got some cash to dump into Yamaha proprietary hardware. It may not be totally closed, but will have limitations have a hefty cost of admission me thinks.