get a windows and make it yourself... no one gives a flyign f**k about macsSmike wrote:Really interesting!...any chance to have a mac osx version?
Miles'tone VST trumpet - Official Release
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- KVRian
- 1480 posts since 14 Jun, 2003
kind of a pop thing to say "nobody cares" nowadays. in truth someone always cares.
in this case theres quite a few id imagine, herbie hancock and michael brecker have continued to prove theres nothing wrong with macs in music, along with many others.
i know at least one guy i work with occasionally that has a wx5 and a mac who would be interested in milestone, then again he also has a w98 pc setup so he can still use his oasys card.
in this case theres quite a few id imagine, herbie hancock and michael brecker have continued to prove theres nothing wrong with macs in music, along with many others.
i know at least one guy i work with occasionally that has a wx5 and a mac who would be interested in milestone, then again he also has a w98 pc setup so he can still use his oasys card.
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- KVRAF
- 4265 posts since 21 Oct, 2001 from my bolthole in the south pacific
Tony, is your WX5 the sax type thing (all I can find online) or is it based on trumpet mouthpiece and valve fingering?Tony Ostinato wrote:kind of a pop thing to say "nobody cares" nowadays. in truth someone always cares.
in this case theres quite a few id imagine, herbie hancock and michael brecker have continued to prove theres nothing wrong with macs in music, along with many others.
i know at least one guy i work with occasionally that has a wx5 and a mac who would be interested in milestone, then again he also has a w98 pc setup so he can still use his oasys card.
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- KVRAF
- 2285 posts since 20 Dec, 2002 from The Benighted States of Trumpistan
Alas, SynthEdit is WIntel-only, being coded in assembler.My spies inform me that Smike wrote:Really interesting!...any chance to have a mac osx version?
Wait... loot _then_ burn? D'oh!
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- KVRian
- 694 posts since 22 Dec, 2004 from norway
I tried beta 3. Very good. I have played euphonium for 10 years. This is very good. The best part: Bender.
Suggestions. I think some breaty noise is a big part of a horn players tone. Maybe shaped white noise. I guess there are already noise, but I think it would be nice with more. Actually there is more noise in the quiet tones on a trumped. Maybe noise should not be affected by velocity. And there is some hard noise as the lips start the tone. A spitting sound. The tone in MilesTones has good attack, but maybe the noise part of the attack could be added. Maybe with a envelope control with a fast attack that gives more overtones to the noise after attack so the same oscillator can simulate all the noise to save CPU. Just suggestions.
The attack on horn is like this: First lip noise, the gradually a tone. So the noise comes first, then pitch. The more quiet tone the longer delay before the pitched tone appears after the lip noise. The lip noise is a strange "Pft" sound that transforms into white noise (air).
Could it be possible to sample the airflow (from the pft - to white noise) and then use the SF-player and trigger it from the gate output of the Midi2CV module so that it is not pitched, but rather shaped by velocity and control (breathcontrol).
It could even be possible to add noise from the valves by triggering the noise in a seperate container with its own midi2CV module that is always set to retrigger. While the main synth container is mono-legato. Also the noise is louder in the quiet tones.
Just some toughts. To sum up: Quiet playing: Lots of noise and breath. Loud plaing: Pretty much like it sounds now (Mostly clean tone like it is now). This is my sugguestion to realistic dynamics.
gunnare
Suggestions. I think some breaty noise is a big part of a horn players tone. Maybe shaped white noise. I guess there are already noise, but I think it would be nice with more. Actually there is more noise in the quiet tones on a trumped. Maybe noise should not be affected by velocity. And there is some hard noise as the lips start the tone. A spitting sound. The tone in MilesTones has good attack, but maybe the noise part of the attack could be added. Maybe with a envelope control with a fast attack that gives more overtones to the noise after attack so the same oscillator can simulate all the noise to save CPU. Just suggestions.
The attack on horn is like this: First lip noise, the gradually a tone. So the noise comes first, then pitch. The more quiet tone the longer delay before the pitched tone appears after the lip noise. The lip noise is a strange "Pft" sound that transforms into white noise (air).
Could it be possible to sample the airflow (from the pft - to white noise) and then use the SF-player and trigger it from the gate output of the Midi2CV module so that it is not pitched, but rather shaped by velocity and control (breathcontrol).
It could even be possible to add noise from the valves by triggering the noise in a seperate container with its own midi2CV module that is always set to retrigger. While the main synth container is mono-legato. Also the noise is louder in the quiet tones.
Just some toughts. To sum up: Quiet playing: Lots of noise and breath. Loud plaing: Pretty much like it sounds now (Mostly clean tone like it is now). This is my sugguestion to realistic dynamics.
gunnare
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- KVRAF
- 4265 posts since 21 Oct, 2001 from my bolthole in the south pacific
The breathy tone on trumpet - or sax for that matter - is something that a player can choose to affect or or not. It is possible to play ppp without a breathy sound and legit players would certainly be aiming for that. Jazz players often go for breathy tones for expression in ballads etc. The tone of Milestones is pretty full and powerful it seems to me. A polyphonic version would rock the house - I wouldn't mind playing the intro to the ELP version of Fanfare for the Common man on a 4 voice versiongunnare wrote:I tried beta 3. Very good. I have played euphonium for 10 years. This is very good. The best part: Bender.
Suggestions. I think some breaty noise is a big part of a horn players tone. Maybe shaped white noise. I guess there are already noise, but I think it would be nice with more. Actually there is more noise in the quiet tones on a trumped.
My understanding is that the breathy sound occurs when the "valve" created by your lips (trumpet) or the reed (sax) is not completely closing on some or all cycles.
Normally this "valve" is periodically interrupting the steady airstream driving the musical tone - the opening and closing is driven by cyclic variation in the back pressure inside the mouthpiece (due to the standing wave inside the horn) so that the valve operates at high frequencies on high notes and low frequencies on low notes.
If you adjust the tension in your lip on either horn you can create a situation where the valve may not close all the way on each cycle. In that case, superimposed on the pulses of air created by the opening and closing of the "valve" will be some steady outflow through a narrow gap which makes the breathy noise.
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- KVRian
- 886 posts since 2 Jun, 2005 from Hawaii
it's funny: if you hang out at brass forums, you get people on there talking all technical about mundane stuff like using their minidisc players to record their gigs, like they've discovered something no one else in the world knows. and here at kvr, we get the opposite effect, people occasionally posting about the most mundane brass-related stuff passed off like it's some big discovery. that makes me laugh...My understanding is that the breathy sound occurs when the "valve" created by your lips (trumpet) or the reed (sax) is not completely closing on some or all cycles.
Normally this "valve" is periodically interrupting the steady airstream driving the musical tone .....
....superimposed on the pulses of air created by the opening and closing of the "valve" will be some steady outflow through a narrow gap which makes the breathy noise.
anyway, here's a brief clip i made with milestones: http://s12.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3MN2 ... BYJ4SUCK2X
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- KVRist
- 296 posts since 15 Dec, 2003 from Upstate New York
bernhardtjeff wrote: anyway, here's a brief clip i made with milestones: http://s12.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3MN2 ... BYJ4SUCK2X
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- KVRAF
- 4265 posts since 21 Oct, 2001 from my bolthole in the south pacific
What are you trying to say here dude? I posted something fairly brief about the physics of the breathy sound. This seems germane to discussion of an instrument that is trying to - er - physically model a trumpet.bernhardtjeff wrote:here at kvr, we get the opposite effect, people occasionally posting about the most mundane brass-related stuff passed off like it's some big discovery.
Do you really have a problem with that ?
I really can't see where you are coming from with "passed off like it is some big discovery". If you are modelling a dickhead the performance is pretty convincing.
Last edited by egbert on Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- Banned
- 541 posts since 17 Nov, 2002
Mate, you gotta start somewhere, piss off if you're not interested in evolution buddybernhardtjeff wrote:it's funny: if you hang out at brass forums, you get people on there talking all technical about mundane stuff like using their minidisc players to record their gigs, like they've discovered something no one else in the world knows. and here at kvr, we get the opposite effect, people occasionally posting about the most mundane brass-related stuff passed off like it's some big discovery. that makes me laugh...My understanding is that the breathy sound occurs when the "valve" created by your lips (trumpet) or the reed (sax) is not completely closing on some or all cycles.
Normally this "valve" is periodically interrupting the steady airstream driving the musical tone .....
....superimposed on the pulses of air created by the opening and closing of the "valve" will be some steady outflow through a narrow gap which makes the breathy noise.
anyway, here's a brief clip i made with milestones: http://s12.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3MN2 ... BYJ4SUCK2X
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- "The" Jazz
- 4619 posts since 18 Aug, 2004 from California, United States
Is that Tom Browne? Sounds like him to me...bernhardtjeff wrote:it's funny: if you hang out at brass forums, you get people on there talking all technical about mundane stuff like using their minidisc players to record their gigs, like they've discovered something no one else in the world knows. and here at kvr, we get the opposite effect, people occasionally posting about the most mundane brass-related stuff passed off like it's some big discovery. that makes me laugh...My understanding is that the breathy sound occurs when the "valve" created by your lips (trumpet) or the reed (sax) is not completely closing on some or all cycles.
Normally this "valve" is periodically interrupting the steady airstream driving the musical tone .....
....superimposed on the pulses of air created by the opening and closing of the "valve" will be some steady outflow through a narrow gap which makes the breathy noise.
anyway, here's a brief clip i made with milestones: http://s12.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3MN2 ... BYJ4SUCK2X
You're partially right, but you're not seeing the full picture. This trumpet physical modeling synth, although it doesn't sound 100% realistic, is a lot closer than any other trumpet PM synths I've heard. I believe it's also made in Synthedit. (?)
Also, note that this thread is charting an ongoing BETA of the trumpet VSTi. Listen to the very first MP3 examples, then listen to the latest ones. I'll say it's progressed a LOT, and imagine what it will be like after more ideas, constructive criticism (:)), and fine-tuning...
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- KVRAF
- 4265 posts since 21 Oct, 2001 from my bolthole in the south pacific
I think it is pretty clear that he wasn't commenting on the VSTi but on my post which he quoted. He may know that stuff but in my experience not many non-brass players seem to have a clue about the breathy sound is produced.Gregjazz wrote:Also, note that this thread is charting an ongoing BETA of the trumpet VSTi. Listen to the very first MP3 examples, then listen to the latest ones. I'll say it's progressed a LOT, and imagine what it will be like after more ideas, constructive criticism (:)), and fine-tuning...
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- "The" Jazz
- 4619 posts since 18 Aug, 2004 from California, United States
It's funny, I always turn the "air noise" up on max... can't get enough of that.egbert wrote:Gregjazz wrote:He may know that stuff but in my experience not many non-brass players seem to have a clue about the breathy sound is produced.
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- KVRian
- 1480 posts since 14 Jun, 2003
I'll give a 3 hour lecture anytime why sampling sucks at brass emulation.
yeah, a sampled trumpet sounds perfect as long as you only play one note.
these guys always send me things they think are good, done with various sample libraries, and im sorry i have yet to be able to resist laughing, seems like each one is worse than the last.
the one time i was fooled by a fake trumpet/mute was tina turners sax player and he was using a wx11 and a vl1, not samples.
i have yet to be fooled by a sampler even once.
i would be quite pleased to leave all the sampler talk in the other threads and keep it the heck out of this one.
and
"people occasionally posting about the most mundane brass-related stuff passed off like it's some big discovery. that makes me laugh..."
was just pure ignorance, we arent talking about these things on their own we are talking about modeling them.
lets be reminded that while there are many companies making physical trumpets, heck they are even on sale at wall mart, there has yet to be one convincing trumpet built in PHYSICS itself. I was a little suprised to see someone prefer the artturia brass trumpetphysics model but id say that this is the best physics trumpet model so far, and only by overanalysing every possible trumpet nuance can you improve these things, and theres no limit how far you can go.
and that my friend makes this historical and significant.
yeah, a sampled trumpet sounds perfect as long as you only play one note.
these guys always send me things they think are good, done with various sample libraries, and im sorry i have yet to be able to resist laughing, seems like each one is worse than the last.
the one time i was fooled by a fake trumpet/mute was tina turners sax player and he was using a wx11 and a vl1, not samples.
i have yet to be fooled by a sampler even once.
i would be quite pleased to leave all the sampler talk in the other threads and keep it the heck out of this one.
and
"people occasionally posting about the most mundane brass-related stuff passed off like it's some big discovery. that makes me laugh..."
was just pure ignorance, we arent talking about these things on their own we are talking about modeling them.
lets be reminded that while there are many companies making physical trumpets, heck they are even on sale at wall mart, there has yet to be one convincing trumpet built in PHYSICS itself. I was a little suprised to see someone prefer the artturia brass trumpetphysics model but id say that this is the best physics trumpet model so far, and only by overanalysing every possible trumpet nuance can you improve these things, and theres no limit how far you can go.
and that my friend makes this historical and significant.
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- KVRian
- 1480 posts since 14 Jun, 2003
I kinda dont like the sampled breath noise either, a good player can eliminate that pft from the beginning of notes and very often its a cliche in sampled brass that only serves to highlight how fake it is.
i like the breath noise implementation as it is, maybe to be able to turn it up louder would be good but i dont think sampling anything is a solution, more like a disaster.
i like the breath noise implementation as it is, maybe to be able to turn it up louder would be good but i dont think sampling anything is a solution, more like a disaster.