Powered by NI...paying for what you don't need?

[xylyx]

With all the massive sample libraries coming with Kontakt Player/Intakt/Kompakt these days, I wonder why they don't make versions of these libraries available without the added software for people who already own Kontakt. It seems to me, that we are paying for software that we don't need or want (not to mention additional registrations to keep track of) and this puts me off of buying a lot of these sample collections.

Why not offer the protected .nks files to current owners of K2 for a reduced price? It would personally make me more inclined to buy some of the products than I currently am knowing that I am paying some premium for something that is ultimately useless to me.

[bnmoore]

The Garritan Stradivari doesn't come with a player but does require Kontakt 2.

[Yossarian]

With all the massive sample libraries coming with Kontakt Player/Intakt/Kompakt these days, I wonder why they don't make versions of these libraries available without the added software for people who already own Kontakt. It seems to me, that we are paying for software that we don't need or want (not to mention additional registrations to keep track of) and this puts me off of buying a lot of these sample collections.

Why not offer the protected .nks files to current owners of K2 for a reduced price? It would personally make me more inclined to buy some of the products than I currently am knowing that I am paying some premium for something that is ultimately useless to me.

Soundware developers always maintain that the value is in the samples, the player is thrown in for free. Even if they were to offer the samples without the player, they would most likely charge the same price.

This is not likely to happen, though. The whole shift from sample libraries to VSTi:s is driven by the developers' desire to protect their samples from piracy. Offering .nks files without the need to register would defeat the whole purpose. What they might conceivably do is offer a c/r protected .nks file that doesn't require you to install a player. As I said, the price is likely to be the same, so the only benefit would be a slightly less bloated plugin folder.

I understand the developers' reasoning but personally, I think it's unfortunate - I prefer sample libraries to VSTi:s. In the long run I think it will be difficult for softsamplers like Kontakt and HALion to survive. Most people are only interested in them as front ends for commercial sample libraries and when most of the new stuff is offered as VSTi:s, where's the incentive to buy a softsampler (unless you actually do your own sampling, in which case you might as well go for something like Shortcircuit)?

/Yoss

[xylyx]

But the .nks files that come with these players are protected and can only be opened with either the plugin frontend they are supplied with or Kontakt...the only additional protection the frontends add is the C/R, which is no protection at all as keygens are easy to come by. I haven't actually used any of these libraries so far, but my guess would be that opening the .nks that comes with the rompler in K2 would bypass the C/R anyway...might be wrong on that one.

As for the cost: well they must be paying a decent chunk of money to NI to license the frontends for these products, either a set fee irrespective of how many copies are sold or on a per copy basis. If it is the latter, then removing the frontend should lower the cost, which could be passed on to the consumer.

Note: I am thinking more of the stuff like Morphology and those kinds of sample collections, rather than the massive orchestral libraries costing thousands...in the case of those, the frontend will be a minor part of the cost.

[Yossarian]

the only additional protection the frontends add is the C/R, which is no protection at all as keygens are easy to come by.

Of course the whole reasoning is based on the assumption that the C/R protection actually works or it would all be rather pointless.

We can discuss the merits or demerits of copy protection all day - the fact is NI and the soundware devs seem to believe it increases their sales so they stick with it.

I haven't actually used any of these libraries so far, but my guess would be that opening the .nks that comes with the rompler in K2 would bypass the C/R anyway...might be wrong on that one.

No, every library tied to a Kompakt player first has to be authorized before you can load it into Kontakt.

As for the cost: well they must be paying a decent chunk of money to NI to license the frontends for these products, either a set fee irrespective of how many copies are sold or on a per copy basis. If it is the latter, then removing the frontend should lower the cost, which could be passed on to the consumer.

Again, I'm referring to every developer I've seen comment on this. They all say that the cost is in the samples, the player is offered for free.

Sorry, I just don't see this happening - it would go completely against the current flow.

/Yoss

[munchkin]

I have Kontakt and some of the sample VSTi's. With all the sample libraries available I don't know many who roll their own. Perhaps some people enjoy painstakingly sampling every key from their old synths but I wonder how common this is.

I'm much more inclined to use a softsynth for synth sounds and use the ready made acoustic sample libraries in Kontakt. So I don't really make the fullest use of Kontakt.

I too dislike having to re-register every sample plugin each time I change a bit of my PC. I'd prefer to buy the .nki files and be done with it.

I find samplers a bit dull though.

[xylyx]

Of course the whole reasoning is based on the assumption that the C/R protection actually works or it would all be rather pointless.

We can discuss the merits or demerits of copy protection all day - the fact is NI and the soundware devs seem to believe it increases their sales so they stick with it.

Yeah, I'm not debating the copy protection side of things, just the, to my eyes anyway, pointless cost addition that the frontend adds to the libraries.

No, every library tied to a Kompakt player first has to be authorized before you can load it into Kontakt.

I did wonder whether this would be the case after I posted that. Talk about making a lot of work for themselves...

Again, I'm referring to every developer I've seen comment on this. They all say that the cost is in the samples, the player is offered for free.

Sorry, I just don't see this happening - it would go completely against the current flow.

Well, they can say that, but it definitely has the odour of something that came out of a bull's rear end

You are right, I don't see the policy changing any time soon, I was just interested to see how others felt about this...

[xylyx]

I have Kontakt and some of the sample VSTi's. With all the sample libraries available I don't know many who roll their own. Perhaps some people enjoy painstakingly sampling every key from their old synths but I wonder how common this is.

I'm much more inclined to use a softsynth for synth sounds and use the ready made acoustic sample libraries in Kontakt. So I don't really make the fullest use of Kontakt.

I too dislike having to re-register every sample plugin each time I change a bit of my PC. I'd prefer to buy the .nki files and be done with it.

I find samplers a bit dull though.

I'm not really into sampled reproductions of old keyboards and the like, but there are some good libraries out there with content that I would be interested in, such as the Ian Boddy stuff like Morphology...it's just when I see the price of these packages, it has always made me wonder how much of the £60 or £115 in the case of the new Ian Boddy release is getting paid to NI for using their host. *shrug* I guess we'll never know unless one of the sample developers who do this come in and tell us, which is unlikely to happen.

Ah well, I shall just do without until a special offer comes along to put them into a price bracket I can live with.

[Yossarian]

Yeah, I'm not debating the copy protection side of things, just the, to my eyes anyway, pointless cost addition that the frontend adds to the libraries.

To be fair to the devs, I can't see any obvious price increases as they've moved from sample libraries to VSTi:s. If anything, you get more content/$ than before. I checked Zero-G's prices and their recommended price for Morphology (3 GB) is $199.95 while the older Ian Boddy sample CD:s (500-600 MB) are $49.95.

Another recent example is Best Service who took some of their older orchestral sample libraries and made a VSTi called Classical Collection which they're offering at a fraction of the cost of the original libraries.

Like I said, I would prefer to at least have the option of buying all these sample sets as regular sample libraries but it just doesn't seem to be on the cards.

/Yoss

[dougsyo]

Lately Steinberg's been peddling Halion Player as another alternative (the new Scarbee stuff, for example). This uses a Synchrosoft dongle rather than C/R. The sample libraries are encrypted, as well as the player itself being protected.

I loathe dongles - that is the ONLY reason why I haven't gotten Miroslav yet.

But the point is true - with better protection the vendors are willing to reduce their price to widen their market. Philharmonik (also with Synchrosoft dongle) is a small fraction of the price of the original MV library.

Squids indicated one reason the Refill format is going to be more expensive is the less sophisticated security available - but it's still going to be much less expensive than the original library.

Doug