IK CSR Reverb - few days to go :)

[bmanic]

One never knows.. besides, it's fun to be sceptic sometimes!

- bManic

[Kingston]

Well, you are entitled to your opinion. But, here is why I think you are wrong. Again, if it sounded great before then the sound isn't changing later on, right?

Yeah, the plugin's sound doesn't change, but better ones keep appearing as DSP algorithms improve and more DSP power becomes available. I thought I was clear that IMO t-racks (for example) sounds very outdated. Harsh '98 digital sound. We've come a long way since. 'It sounded great for its time' very much applies.

To me and many pros I know in the industry, it doesn't matter if it is hardware or software. If it does a great job on the sound of your music then that speaks above anything else.

Exactly! And I wouldn't put a '98 compressor or EQ, AD/DA, or guitar sim anywhere near my audio.

[Kingston]

Why wouldn't it be the actual plug-in?

For the same reason it wasn't the actual Milli Vanilli.

[Squids]

Well, you are entitled to your opinion. But, here is why I think you are wrong. Again, if it sounded great before then the sound isn't changing later on, right?

Yeah, the plugin's sound doesn't change, but better ones keep appearing as DSP algorithms improve and more DSP power becomes available. I thought I was clear that IMO t-racks (for example) sounds very outdated. Harsh '98 digital sound. We've come a long way since. 'It sounded great for its time' very much applies.

To me and many pros I know in the industry, it doesn't matter if it is hardware or software. If it does a great job on the sound of your music then that speaks above anything else.

Exactly! And I wouldn't put a '98 compressor or EQ, AD/DA, or guitar sim anywhere near my audio.

We're not talking about AD/DA. We're talking about the modeling of vintage tube and analog gear. (well, we were talking about reverbs at one point ). By all means if it did sound that way to YOUR ears then I don't expect you to get it. But, luckily to my ears and to thousands of people it sounds f**king GREAT! So, again, by the fact that people are still buying it today is a bit more substance to back up my point. It is not out-dated.

By the same token, how old is a Lexicon 480L? Is it still used in the studio? Hmmmm.

As for whether or not it is the actual CSR reverb in the demo is as insulting as it is a compliment. Insulting to suggest that a company would want to "trick" you that way by using something else and completely faking it. I wouldn't associate with anyone who would do that. The people who make these products are very passionate about their work. It is not some scam to make a lot of money. In fact, if it was all about the money then we'd all be in other businesses where it isn't so niche. So, no one wants to ruin one of the best parts of it which is the pride in how it sounds when it is done.

But, if being skeptical is just something to do for fun then have at it. Like I said, no point in wasting time going round and round. If it's not for you then so be it. For the people who ARE interested in CSR and started this thread however I am glad to discuss it.

[Squids]

Why wouldn't it be the actual plug-in?

For the same reason it wasn't the actual Milli Vanilli.

How many Milli Vanillis are there? How long do they last? But without any evidence to support it would you think just any other band was also doing the same thing as Milli Vanilli?

Absurd paranoia. Insulting and a waste of time IMO.

[Kingston]

But, luckily to my ears and to thousands of people it sounds f**king GREAT! So, again, by the fact that people are still buying it today is a bit more substance to back up my point. It is not out-dated.

I think we have quite opposite opinions on what luck or quality means here.

You measure it by sheer number of sold units. That's McDonalds and Behringer, and that's great in KVR. The mid gaussian curve rules here. But I also think KVR is a testament of the DAW explosion and decline in general engineering quality in music.

[OMU]

Wow, that's a good one

[Squids]

But, luckily to my ears and to thousands of people it sounds f**king GREAT! So, again, by the fact that people are still buying it today is a bit more substance to back up my point. It is not out-dated.

I think we have quite opposite opinions on what luck or quality means here.

You measure it by sheer number of sold units. That's McDonalds and Behringer, and that's great in KVR. The mid gaussian curve rules here. But I also think KVR is a testament of the DAW explosion and decline in general engineering quality in music.

Just because something sells consistently doesn't mean it is the qualify of McDonalds (although their fries I must admit are pretty good ). However, other things that back it up for me are my own ears! Testimonials from countless musicians, engineers and producers. Like I said, they don't HAVE to do that. They don't HAVE to say anything. IK isn't the size of Nike! They don't have money to pay endorsees to say that stuff. People step up because they like to talk about what they use and like. Just go over to www.t-racks.com or ask some of the editors and writers of the magazine trades. Ask John Krogh from EQ or Craig Anderton what they honestly think. Those are just some examples. Reading just random anonymous posts from peeps on the forum is just one slice of perspective. But, you really don't know WHO you are talking to or where they are coming from, what experience they really have, what sort of interests they may have in competiting product companies or whether they even like commercial products or companies in the first place!

[JeffSanders]

Even my beloved UAD-1 compressors are now out-dated and out-done imho.

How? Voxengo Marquis.

Do the UAD-1 compressors sound like shit now that there's better? No. They're awesome. But I won't settle for less than the best if I can help it.

btw, great points here Kingston. You're right on.

[OMU]

On the other side I understand Squids. Somehow he has to atrct people to buy his company's products. But what our mates here (Kingston and bmaniac) are trying to say are things that come to the common sense and denying them is a bit supect. I know you hope to sell many copies of this plugin and I sincerely wish you to succeed that, if it is indeed a good sounding plugin, but to bring arguments about a six year old plugin like T-racks when everybody knows how it sounds and why people are not using it anymore chosing other plugins, that recreate more faithful analog units (see UAD which has a convincing Fairchild emulation) or creating new and more competitive mastering plugins (like Voxego or example), over it, doesn't sound good to me.
And the no demo version problem, I can nly supose that will have a negative impact to the potential customers.
I have a Syncrosoft key and I could demo it and many fellows around here do have one too, but most of them don't and IMHO all this dongle thing is not good and this problem has been over discussed. But is your choice.
Let us hope that in a few years the dongles will be history.
Good luck.

[bmanic]

AFAIK Stevie Wonder isn't doing any mastering so how does his comment qualify on the audio quality of T-racks as it's advertised (mastering plugin)?

- bManic

[JeffSanders]

Stevie Wonder pays more for pro mastering on one cd than most of us have in our entire rigs. lol

[OMU]

I have had people like Stevie Wonder tell me personally that they love TRackS or John Blackwell from Prince going on and on about it in the session how he loves TRackS... the list is so long. TRackS EQ is one of the only effect plug-ins bundled with EVERY ProTools system for over 3 years. Why would they bother to do that? Because it is great? They already have some EQs in ProTools itself. Why add TRackS that they have to pay MONEY for? Hmmmmmm.

There's multiple logicical reasons to back up what I am saying about certain plug-ins not being out-dated. TRackS is one of them. Even if you don't agree it is proven otherwise by its success and such a large amount of the people who engineer the recordings that are out there in the world.

I am not saying YOU should like it. But, people definitely do! I have to check but it might even sell more these days than it did years ago as it has caught on as a "staple piece" in most professional virtual studio set ups.

Man, you cought me with that.
T-racks is a mastering software, right?
Please go to this link:
http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index. ... dbe64ba63a
and ask those mastering engineers about which of them is using T-racks.
And I know for sure they use plugins, not many, in fact, just a few. And T-racksis not among them.
Sad but true.
Again, good luck with the reverb. Let's hope it has the quality that's advertised.

[Squids]

If it sounds great then it sounds great. It doesn't all of a sudden not sound great. Something else may come along that you like better. Sure. So? It is different. Does the older thing, be it a UAD or TRackS all of a sudden sound bad then? Nope. Can it still be used to make some great sounding music? Sure can! So, then it isn't out-dated.

It can be limiting to think otherwise. But, that's not my problem. I know what I like. You want to deprive yourself of great studio tools? That's your problem.

[Squids]

AFAIK Stevie Wonder isn't doing any mastering so how does his comment qualify on the audio quality of T-racks as it's advertised (mastering plugin)?

- bManic

Well, for one thing, TRackS isn't just for mastering. It is for mixing. Secondly, a lot of pro musicians who use mastering houses still do mastering in their studios as well depending on the project. I am friends with one of his main programmers Rob Arbiter who keeps me up to date with what guys like Stevie are using as well. But, I got to meet him personally at NAMM a few years back where he told me what he loves from IK and SR. Same thing with COUNTLESS musicians guys. Seriously. You don't think? I am not bragging about it. But, I don't think too many people question whether I talk to a lot of pro musicians, engineers and producers. Or are you paranoid about that too?

Feeling like a Squid being trolled here.