Ohmboyz delay question

[shamann]

Regarding the sustain mode, you can set with a NRPN message, not a CC value (not through host automation either, which is weird). Look on page 23 of the manual (not the tutorial, different thing) for the necessary codes.

[bmanic]

Yes, unfortunatly I can confirm that this sustained loop thing is not assignable to a controller which makes it simply useless!! Who is going to use a mouse on stage for this?! Righ, no one.

It's really not ok, if you advertise with this function as a USP, which Ohmforce does, and not having this function implemented well...

Anyway, I have to accept, just like other frustrations in Life:)

How about asking them to implement it? They are quite responsive to suggestions.

Cheers!
bManic

[ensemble]

You are right BManic, I was a bit too negative.
These guys are cool and don't deserve that.
I wil mail them to ask this.

But If NRPN does work, I wonder if Ableton Live also supports this cause I use the plug-in in Live.

I'll check the Ableton forum for that.

[meister eder]

Regarding the sustain mode, you can set with a NRPN message, not a CC value (not through host automation either, which is weird).

The Flags parameter gets recorded and played back in the host automation just fine here, as well in Logic Pro 7 as in Live 5.

[meister eder]

How about asking them to implement it? They are quite responsive to suggestions.

Little chance for that one I guess, since all that is accessible by NRPN is regarded as implemented by them. At least that's my experience about once asking the same for LFO phase reset (an essential feature for rhythmic patches IMO).

[shamann]

The Flags parameter gets recorded and played back in the host automation just fine here, as well in Logic Pro 7 as in Live 5.

Sorry, I meant that the sustain loop parameter isn't exposed as a VST parameter, and so not available for host VST automation. I'd expect that most MIDI sequencers would record the MIDI data.

[kritikon]

The sustain is my only gripe about Ohmboyz too. Sometimes I've had the flags recorded on VST automation, but other times it behaves very strangely. Sometimes it only kicks in a bar or two late, other times when I copy and paste the automation, it won't affect the sustain. Other times it opens and closes the sustain in reverse - i.e. when I record sustain it switches it off, and when I record turning it off, it turns it on. But there are times when I've had it work perfectly - there seems to be no knowing when it'll work as it should. And this is in SX2...so you'd assume it was the Ohmboyz implementation rather than the host that has the problems.

Which is a real shame, because the sustain is one of the better features on Ohmboyz - I'd use it all the time on automation if I could get it stable. Sometimes I have to record the delays 100% wet on a separate audio channel, manually tweak the parameters on the fly, and then mix it in. Which is a right royal pain in the bum if you then want to edit the source later.

It's a minor irritant, but I'd sure use Ohmboyz more if it would automate properly. It's still a fantastic delay plugin though. One of my must-haves.

[meister eder]

The Flags parameter gets recorded and played back in the host automation just fine here, as well in Logic Pro 7 as in Live 5.

Sorry, I meant that the sustain loop parameter isn't exposed as a VST parameter, and so not available for host VST automation. I'd expect that most MIDI sequencers would record the MIDI data.

The Flags parameter is the one responsible for the sustain loop among others (as you know), and it is available for host automation in both Logic and Live.

In other words, if I enable touch, latch or write mode in Logic, I can automate the sustain loop, and when I enable record in Live (that's how you do it in Live, "record" automation), I can automate it. I was not talking about recording MIDI controller data (I know as well the difference between a tutorial and a manual, as I do know the differnce between MIDI controllers and automation data )
Open the dropdown menu of automation parameters in both of those hosts, and you will see the Flags parameter there.

Sorry, I am not a native English speaker. What other word than "record" can I use for, well, recording automation data?

[meister eder]

The sustain is my only gripe about Ohmboyz too. Sometimes I've had the flags recorded on VST automation, but other times it behaves very strangely. Sometimes it only kicks in a bar or two late, other times when I copy and paste the automation, it won't affect the sustain. Other times it opens and closes the sustain in reverse - i.e. when I record sustain it switches it off, and when I record turning it off, it turns it on. But there are times when I've had it work perfectly - there seems to be no knowing when it'll work as it should. And this is in SX2...so you'd assume it was the Ohmboyz implementation rather than the host that has the problems.

You have to be very careful with the value of the automation, since the Flags parameter is not only responsible for the sustain loop, but also for other buttons like e.g. second delay line ON/OFF, as you might probably know.
So one point up or down in the automation curve could mean that it automates something else. Interesting is, that the values for sustain ON and for sustain OFF are not subsequent in the list of values of the Flags parameter.
This could possibly be responsible for the occasional misbehaviour that you are observing.

[shamann]

The Flags parameter is the one responsible for the sustain loop among others (as you know), and it is available for host automation in both Logic and Live.

Oh, I see now. I had things mixed up. All clear now.

[ensemble]

Fantastic guys, It works now but as said before you have to be very carefull with the value. I found it out by myself, with trial and error, came back here to tell you and saw that you already knew:)

Anyway, I am a happy man again.

Ciao

[shamann]

Agreed, you have to be careful with it, but I've also found it to cause the plugin to be a little unstable. GUI redraw starts to lack (not that big an issue) and the plugin crashed a couple of times for me as a result of the automation.

[Red_Force]

To ensemble,
Well, it would have been nice to have the sustain loop more easily accessible. I concess this was a design flaw but to our defense it must be said OhmBoyz has been designed at a time where Cubase was only dealing with 16 automation and where most people didn't think higher than Karlette in terms of delay. And would you believe it ? We only added that feature nearly as the last minute, thinking it was to wild for the users

About the pricing, you may be interested to know that we consider it to be a service to user : a lot of companies force you to one price for all versions when you generally use one and no more... while dev cost of those versions actuall is a big part of the price. So we have decided to let everyone pay for what he needed... and no more.

To Kritikon : this is typically a host issue. Lack of precision dealing with automation...

[meister eder]

GUI redraw starts to lack (not that big an issue)

Could be you mistake the switching on and off of the second delay line (which is also done by the Flags parameter) as a GUI redraw problem. Just a thought.

[shamann]

Maybe, but I don't think so.

I found switching the sustain on and off relatively quickly resulted in the sustain button animation lagging, especially with any other automations going on. But, I'm taken to understand that part of that is the way animations can be called in the VST spec, so that when animations become resource intensive, they are given low priority behind signal processing. Not such a big deal in my book.

It did crash a few times for me though when automating the Flag parameter.