Help with Chords - Guitar !!!!!!!

[josevin2000]

I have been playing the guitar for quite some time now with decent skills. However recently i was jamming with a friend and was taken aback by the beautilful chords that he was playing for simple songs...

I have been mostly self taught and never ventured beyond simple straight chords... So apart from majors and minors, the only other chords that have been part of my playing have been the dominant 7, which i normally add as a prelude to the root chord... Thats all...

So add9, sus4, aug , diminished,and others have never been part of my playing..... however i would like to improve on this. I have begun by learning the theory behind chords and also the notes that form various chords namely sevenths, sixths, aug, dim, maj7th etc.... Next i have started figuring out different positions for these chords on the fretboard... So far so good... so know i know how to hold a Cdim, or a Dsus4, in more than one position...

What i feel i need to master next is to register the sound and feel of every type of chord.. Like if i hear a song i can easily write straight chords for it, comprising mainly majors, minors and dom 7ths... that coz the sounds and feel of these chords is very well registered in my brain, obviously coz thats the only thing i play.... But i must also have the ablity to fill in some of these add9's and sus4's for added effect....

So the only way i can register the sound of these new chords is by playing them out in songs that have them, and over a period of time registering its sonic nature in my mind...so in future when i write chords for a song i dont just restrict myself to straight chords.... Also i'm sure this will improve my programmin.....

The chords i am currently adding to my vocab are maj7, min maj7, add9, sus4, aug and dim, which i feel should be good enuf for a start....

So could you please help me find good sites online where gud chords are provided for common pop rock songs, which will help me improve my chord vocabulary...Yeah yeah i know, i can google my way at this, but the web is filled with sites providing chords... I'd want to follow from sites where i can trust the chords given....

so i am hoping u can guide me to some good quality sites where the chords provided are accurate and the songs listed are such that they will help me achive what i am settin out to achieve.... Also one which has the lyrics too, so i know exactly where the chord changes occur...

Also any song in particular u think i must learn which will be very useful to me, please suggest...

BTW i am not much aware of artists and sngs post 2002.. Rock pop of the late eighties and ninties is what i have mostly been listening to..

Also please feel free to give your valuable advise, esp seasoned guitarists here at KVR...

Thanks guys

[blue on blue]

i don't know of any sites, but if you've got a decent library system where you live, they might have plenty of song books. i've found all kinds of stuff at the library where i live, from radiohead to leo kottke (not that i'm anywhere near being able to play his stuff). many of the books also come with CDs demonstrating the song.

[Hink]

I would suggest that you expand on your guitar tuning...especially with an acoustic. I googled this for you

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n ... ate+tuning

I find that people who have played guitar for a while can really benefit from the voicings in other tunings. Many of the artists of my generation did just that (I'm 46) Jimmy Page being one of the first ones that come to mind.

Open G, A, and E are a good place to start...tunings like DADDAD or DADGAD are very nice for acoustic...on open chords you can drop it easily to the minor. You can draw up your own chord charts which will help you to understand the tuning better. Ten years ago I started using alternate tunings, now I rarely play standard...

[scuzzphut]

Yah - drop tunings will open a new world
Everyone from Neil Young through Killswitch and SOAD feature drop tunings heavily. (Daron Malakian plays drop C )

[ross g]

this is pretty simple, but the first thing i learned, after years of "just playing", was what is and why does a chord progression work....mostly it is to follow a melody, and as you apply scales to the building of chords you are learning, your chord skills will increase fast.....one thing i've been doing is going to the chord chart sites and learning the tunes i know in my head but never knew how to play...if you are anything like me skill wise (and from what you say, sounds close), you might know the chords anyway...i have been playing lots of these chords and never knew the names...so just running through these tunes has taught me shit loads in very little time, i can actually play identifable songs after years and years of "just playing"...

[Hink]

this is pretty simple, but the first thing i learned, after years of "just playing", was what is and why does a chord progression work....mostly it is to follow a melody, and as you apply scales to the building of chords you are learning, your chord skills will increase fast.....one thing i've been doing is going to the chord chart sites and learning the tunes i know in my head but never knew how to play...if you are anything like me skill wise (and from what you say, sounds close), you might know the chords anyway...i have been playing lots of these chords and never knew the names...so just running through these tunes has taught me shit loads in very little time, i can actually play identifable songs after years and years of "just playing"...

First ross, many of the songs you may think are in standard tuning are not...much of zep, much of the stones, srv, sabbath, anything blackmore, a lot of blues...you would be surprised.

Second, alternate tunings (not just dropped scuzz ) actually help you more to understand chords, scales and the relationships between the two. As you work a chord progression out in different tunings you get an understanding of what makes different chords work together better and often your voicings can have a little twist on them. With scales and modes it changed me from a pentatonic player to using many scales...

[ross g]

this is pretty simple, but the first thing i learned, after years of "just playing", was what is and why does a chord progression work....mostly it is to follow a melody, and as you apply scales to the building of chords you are learning, your chord skills will increase fast.....one thing i've been doing is going to the chord chart sites and learning the tunes i know in my head but never knew how to play...if you are anything like me skill wise (and from what you say, sounds close), you might know the chords anyway...i have been playing lots of these chords and never knew the names...so just running through these tunes has taught me shit loads in very little time, i can actually play identifable songs after years and years of "just playing"...

First ross, many of the songs you may think are in standard tuning are not...much of zep, much of the stones, srv, sabbath, anything blackmore, a lot of blues...you would be surprised.

Second, alternate tunings (not just dropped scuzz ) actually help you more to understand chords, scales and the relationships between the two. As you work a chord progression out in different tunings you get an understanding of what makes different chords work together better and often your voicings can have a little twist on them. With scales and modes it changed me from a pentatonic player to using many scales...

i know hink ol pal, i can play brown sugar in "my tuning" which is just open g with the high e left alone, i came up with it on my own years ago and played nothing else, found out later it's not that weird...i'm not arguing dude, i actually learned how to finger pick from never having a pick around...i honestly "just played" for years and years and f**king around with my tuning and moved on to open g and the slide...funny thing, i almost learned how to play guitar along the way, but only almost...there is nothing wrong with playing regular songs, i f**king love it, and i find i'm not the worst singer in the world either...but more importantly, i'm going to be able to teach my kids how to play if they want to learn, i got lots to learn, but knowing the "real shit" makes it easier to explain the "wrong shit"

[Sascha Franck]

I don't think alternate tunings are something to look at before you haven't grasped the main idea behind expanding chords in standard tuning. Exploring those things will also help you immensely on alternate tunings.

However, I wouldn't happen to know about any specific books, but I think a bit of common chord knowledge could be the key to an entire universe of things to explore.

Unfortunately I still haven't translated my diploma (which was dealing with such issues quite a lot) to english, but here's a few (more or less random) ideas to start with (some of which you seem to allready have covered):

- Get some theory book explaining chord/scale relationships. It's super useful to know why, when and how to replace, say, a dominant chord with the dim 7th chord starting on the third. Or, another example, why a maj7 chord placed on the 3rd of a minor chord makes up for a great min7/9 voicing. Etc.

- Concentrate on the upper 4 strings. The low E and A strings usually (sure, there's quite some exceptions, but you gotta start somewhere) cover bass and fifths.

- Learn the basic 7th chords (maj7, dom7, min7, min7/b5) and their inversions on the top 4 strings in "drop 2" form. "Drop 2", being a term often used in, say, section arrangements, pretty much applies to all common guitar voicings.
The rule to construct them would be to drop the second top note in a close voicing an octave down.
So Cmaj7, first inversion is: C-E-G-B.
In drop 2 form it'll look like: G-C-E-B.
You won't be able to finger all close voicings on a guitar (actually, apart from root position, almost none will work), drop 2 voicings however will work nicely.

- Play some standard chord progressions with these voicings. Such as II-V-I. Allways use the nearest voicing when changing chords (proper voice leading and stuff). Play them in as many positions as possible.

- Learn the following standard replacements to enhance chords:
() 9 (or b/#9) for 1 (you don't need the root because a bass might be playing it).
() 6 (or b6) for 7.
() 13 (or b13) for 5 (usually only on maj and dom chords)
() 11 (or #11) for 5.
() 4 for 3 (on maj and dom chords, so they become sus4).
() 2 for 3 (usually only working on maj and dom chords).

- Play the same standard progression with those enhancements. Use extensions that are appropriate for the given scalar context (which is why I recommend some sort of a theory book).
So Dmin7 | G7 | Cmaj7 might become Dmin7/9 | G7/13 | Cmaj7/9.

That's just it for a start. Oh well, probably even more than enough for a start...
Whenever I get my shit recabled (probably during the next days), I'll gladly come up with some examples.

[Hink]

well Sascha you're the teacher, not I. But it would seem to me that people who learn just standard (as I did) think of chords in just patterns and fingerings (as I did), however when you start to break the chords up to create chord charts for yourself you make discoveries along the way that bring understanding with them (like I did)...true you can do the same thing just studying chords in standard, but then if you do it the way I suggest (and so has many guitarists before us) you learn two lessons (perhaps three by figuring the scales to match) but you're the teacher...I just play to comfort my sole

[Sascha Franck]

Hink, it's not about me being the teacher, it's all about me being a somewhat working musician. So I can only tell from my own experiences.

[Hink]

fwiw, for many years my half brother tried to get me into alternate tunings...I came up with more reasons why it was bad...it was cheating...it would effect the intonation too much....I played a rose....I don't want to sund like page...I used them all and then some. Then about ten years ago I started to get interested and I found out all that time I was wrong.

That's the funny thing about growth, you've got to accept that fact that part of growth is learning from our mistakes, discovering our errs and being willing to change...otherwise there is no growth...so being wrong is good...in fact I might be wrong now, but for now it's right for me, and I'll keep growing until the day I drop dead...

[Hink]

So I can only tell from my own experiences.

just as I my friend, just as I...

[ross g]

I don't think alternate tunings are something to look at before you haven't grasped the main idea behind expanding chords in standard tuning. Exploring those things will also help you immensely on alternate tunings.

However, I wouldn't happen to know about any specific books, but I think a bit of common chord knowledge could be the key to an entire universe of things to explore.

Unfortunately I still haven't translated my diploma (which was dealing with such issues quite a lot) to english, but here's a few (more or less random) ideas to start with (some of which you seem to allready have covered):

- Get some theory book explaining chord/scale relationships. It's super useful to know why, when and how to replace, say, a dominant chord with the dim 7th chord starting on the third. Or, another example, why a maj7 chord placed on the 3rd of a minor chord makes up for a great min7/9 voicing. Etc.

- Concentrate on the upper 4 strings. The low E and A strings usually (sure, there's quite some exceptions, but you gotta start somewhere) cover bass and fifths.

- Learn the basic 7th chords (maj7, dom7, min7, min7/b5) and their inversions on the top 4 strings in "drop 2" form. "Drop 2", being a term often used in, say, section arrangements, pretty much applies to all common guitar voicings.
The rule to construct them would be to drop the second top note in a close voicing an octave down.
So Cmaj7, first inversion is: C-E-G-B.
In drop 2 form it'll look like: G-C-E-B.
You won't be able to finger all close voicings on a guitar (actually, apart from root position, almost none will work), drop 2 voicings however will work nicely.

- Play some standard chord progressions with these voicings. Such as II-V-I. Allways use the nearest voicing when changing chords (proper voice leading and stuff). Play them in as many positions as possible.

- Learn the following standard replacements to enhance chords:
() 9 (or b/#9) for 1 (you don't need the root because a bass might be playing it).
() 6 (or b6) for 7.
() 13 (or b13) for 5 (usually only on maj and dom chords)
() 11 (or #11) for 5.
() 4 for 3 (on maj and dom chords, so they become sus4).
() 2 for 3 (usually only working on maj and dom chords).

- Play the same standard progression with those enhancements. Use extensions that are appropriate for the given scalar context (which is why I recommend some sort of a theory book).
So Dmin7 | G7 | Cmaj7 might become Dmin7/9 | G7/13 | Cmaj7/9.

That's just it for a start. Oh well, probably even more than enough for a start...
Whenever I get my shit recabled (probably during the next days), I'll gladly come up with some examples.

this is all the shit i want to learn...

edit; but like i was saying to hink, i might know some of this stuff and NOT know it, if you know what i mean (or don't)

edit again: lots of this i've been teaching myself without having a way to explain it...that's why reading about this stuff helps...some of it is too hard too understand without being shown, but there you go...

[wrench45us]

Rikky Rooksby How to Write Songs on Guitar

basics and well beyond

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087930 ... oding=UTF8

[ross g]

one song that i learned that taught me a lot was "my sweet lord"...it's got a real nice use of a dim chord slid up AND a modulation, check out the sites or pm me if you want to get into it...i don't even know if i'm playing it right (i actually, finally figured out the mod while it was playing on a george tribute concert video at a music store), but it sounds ok, like i said, i learned alot...it's cool to throw a dim chord in there instead of a 7th before the root chord as you were talking about, for example... (i wish i would have learned this shit 20 yrs ago tbh)