KVR Audio

Shane Sanders · Post by **Shane Sanders** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:18 am

This is probably a dumb question but in terms of final mixdown (prior to subtle mastering) is there a strong reason to curb very low frequencies on a per channel basis before they reach the master channel or is it sufficient to shelf the lows only at the end of the chain?

I ask because I've got a piece that really lives because of the lows, but there are some ultra-lows being generated that are flapping my monitors like crazy. Obviously this is eating up headroom, but I swear it still sounds incredible. But I know I can't leave all of these freqs in there.

But after killing them in the master channel only, cutting everything below 60hz using CamelPhatPro, something vital goes away. Ahhh, this is hard to explain.

-S

scam_artist · Post by **scam_artist** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:24 am

just try cutting everything under 30 or 40, not 60, maybe? and better off using a transparent EQ because the BP filters of CamelPhat tend to colour the sound a bit I find

Lord Snarebottom · Post by **Lord Snarebottom** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:24 am

I would do tracks on an individual basis, and I usually do. You can also do a selective reduction of energy in the 200Hz vicinity to create a bit more air.

scam_artist · Post by **scam_artist** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:28 am

PS I try to roll off the bottom end per channel

Shane Sanders · Post by **Shane Sanders** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:28 am

I'm always working under the assumption that cutting at 60hz really doesn't kill everything below 60hz, but just slopes it off radically. I can still hear and even see lower freqs once I bring things into AAudition. Hmmmm. This aspect of things isn't my forte. I think there are too many variables for me right now, too many choices.

I probably need to invest in some Voxengo stuff, as I've liked the demos, but I always end up starting new music rather than nitpicking on the 98% finished stuff.

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:30 am

I'd use a parametric EQ rather than CamelPhat, and recommend cutting below audible frequencies, so below twenty hertz. You can do that on the final mix without issue. That should take less of the life out.

scam_artist · Post by **scam_artist** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:32 am

do you have any dedicated EQs? I can only suggest TrackPlug5 which is very versatile

edit: shamann just beat me to it

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:34 am

I say "KILL 'EM WHERE YOU FIND 'EM!" and show no mercy.

Shane Sanders · Post by **Shane Sanders** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:57 am

scam_artist wrote:do you have any dedicated EQs? I can only suggest TrackPlug5 which is very versatile

edit: shamann just beat me to it

Yeah, I have some stuff I could use, but I'm pushing the upper limits of CPU already on this piece. Part of the dilemma.... lol

> DiGiT < · Post by **> DiGiT <** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:13 am

a low roll off can also cut some unexpected anomalies in higher elements such as momentary dc offsets... i cut most frequencies below 40 on all tracks, but go higher on tracks that are trebbly like hats and such. rumble and mud can accumulate quickly without.

Shane Sanders · Post by **Shane Sanders** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:40 am

> DiGiT < wrote:a low roll off can also cut some unexpected anomalies in higher elements such as momentary dc offsets... i cut most frequencies below 40 on all tracks, but go higher on tracks that are trebbly like hats and such. rumble and mud can accumulate quickly without.

This is what I suspected as well. So far tonight, I've managed to clean up most of the mess just by carefully soloing tracks, listening and watching for flap, then un-soloing and using regular track EQ in FLS to notch problem areas. If this was a rock song, it'd be easy, but it's something else entirely and all the usual rules just don't apply. It's just tedious and I'm in a hurry to be finished. Same old same old.

Thanks guys! I appreciate the advice.

kilroy · Post by **kilroy** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:13 am

Shane...without knowing the exact nature of the low frequency sources, or how they are used in your track, I can't really add too much more to the good advice already suggested. That said, sometimes what I will do to control those deep lows is route the necessary tracks to a buss over which I then strap a couple of good EQs ahead of a Waves C1 compressor configured to splitband the signal to the side chain. I normally start by aggressively dumping everything below 25hz with a 18db per octave slope hi-pass filter on the first EQ, and follow that with a more gradual shelving filter of say 6db per octave set to an initial starting frequency of 40hz on the second. I then tune the C1 to squeeze and contain the deep lows below 70hz so they are still powerful, yet compact and well behaved. You can tweak the tone by carefully tuning the hinge point of the second shelving filter, and the position of the band split point on the compressor to determine how much low end is processed.

I usually like to try this approach first before doing too much carving in the deep end, especially using peaking filters that might risk messing with the low end phase unnecessarily.

ericzang · Post by **ericzang** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:48 am

http://www.blocc.biz/

check the highpass filter out. I haven't done extensive testing, but it seems quite good. Simple, effective.

jens · Post by **jens** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:12 pm

BONES wrote:I say "KILL 'EM WHERE YOU FIND 'EM!" and show no mercy.

indeed, that's the way to go - often even if you don't hear any there are still low frequencies which take away headroom. Cutting them off thus means gaining something without having a loss. Solo the channel and disable/unable the low-cut to check its effect on the sound.

putte · Post by **putte** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:30 pm

.. yes, its totally worth it to go through each single track in the song for just watching what their frequencies are doing. Lo-cut and Hi-cut filters can do wonders in order to achieve a transparent sound where every litte ingredient has its place.
i think its one of the best "tricks" especially for people who feel their songs "dumb" or "flat" or "muddy".

putte

when and where to kill low freqs