The I Love Logic thread

[Sascha Franck]

Regarding Logic error messages, there's been an alltime favourite of mine:
"Circular structure detected. Please tell Emagic how you did that - OK".
No, I'm not kidding...

[jackson]

jackson, it's not that Emapple is "using up" synths that were only present in Magix products, more to the opposite.
The Magix synths have allways been present in Logic, but back in the days Magix products were distributed by Emagic, so they could kinda license a stripped down Logic version including the synths.
There's an exception though: That FM synth, which has never seen the daylight in any Logic/PC version. My assumption would be that it has allready been in the pipeline when Apple bought Émagic, and probably some Magix developers have been involved in creating it, so they were entitled to include it in their MIDI studio.

I knew about their history together, it just seems strange to me that Magix continues the Logic based line when they have a much more modern source in Samplitude. But then that company seems to do the strangest things anyway. I mean, if they had access to the Logic source, why is Samplitude's MIDI still considered sub-par?

No matter, I'm moving to eXT and/or Live anyway.

[Sascha Franck]

I knew about their history together, it just seems strange to me that Magix continues the Logic based line when they have a much more modern source in Samplitude. But then that company seems to do the strangest things anyway. I mean, if they had access to the Logic source, why is Samplitude's MIDI still considered sub-par?

They never had access to any Logic source code. Magix MIDI studio has been entirely programmed by Emagic (apart from said synth perhaps). I don't think Emagic (or Apple) would ever get their source code out of their hands.

I also don't think Magix will continue to be using the Logic based line, simply because there's no updates possible. Their latest Music Studio is looking quite like an entirely new program allready (not based on either Logic or Samplitude that is).

[jackson]

I knew about their history together, it just seems strange to me that Magix continues the Logic based line when they have a much more modern source in Samplitude. But then that company seems to do the strangest things anyway. I mean, if they had access to the Logic source, why is Samplitude's MIDI still considered sub-par?

They never had access to any Logic source code. Magix MIDI studio has been entirely programmed by Emagic (apart from said synth perhaps). I don't think Emagic (or Apple) would ever get their source code out of their hands.

I also don't think Magix will continue to be using the Logic based line, simply because there's no updates possible. Their latest Music Studio is looking quite like an entirely new program allready (not based on either Logic or Samplitude that is).

That's why I'm surprised they're still flogging it - I mean, how old is the v5 source now, and without access to the source, I take it they haven't really made any meaningful upgrades in the meantime...

I just looked at some screenshots of the new Music Studio, it looks very similar to Samplitude

[spaceman]

Regarding Logic error messages, there's been an alltime favourite of mine:
"Circular structure detected. Please tell Emagic how you did that - OK".
No, I'm not kidding...

that's a classic

[christianmusicmaker]

I think for commercial reasons, it will be a long time (if ever) before Magix give Audio Studio Samplitude's MIDI features - it's a major selling point over the cheaper program. I much prefer sequencing in Midi Studio anyway.

Agreed. Magix seem quite reluctant to add Samplitudes midi functions to Audio studio...however they have already added many of Samplitudes midi functions to Magix Music Maker.

http://site.magix.net/english-uk/home/m ... n=standard

Magix appear to want to keep selling Music Studio and Music Maker for as along as possible even with the ovelap between the two packages. Few people know that Music Maker already has Vsti support. I ran all sorts of VSTi's in it no problem. Samplitudes Piano roll is certainly there in Music Maker. There must be differences between the Samplitude midi feature set and Music Maker but if there are (must be surely) there are not many.

Music Maker has no version of Logic in it (last time I checked)and appears to be as close to a full version of Samplitude as you can probably get for less than 10% of Samplitude 8's price. It even ships with more instruments(12)than Samplitude 8 which I think only has Robota! Very strange.

Not sure if Music Maker allows 24 bit recording yet though. My guess is no, but I think it will play back 24 bit files OK.

[sluggo]

Yup, I used to love Logic. Seemed to work much better than Cubase if I remember correctly. I also remember that Muzys allowed me to have a higher vsti plugin count

[OMU]

Ok, regarding Logic's cpu handling efficiency here's an example.

I recently mixed a movie soundtrack entirely in Logic. I'm new to Logic as I have it for 3-4 months.

I have 140 audio tracks with aprox 245 insert plugins in REAL TIME.
Not a single render freeze bounce etc. And among these there are 46 Space Designers (which, if you don't know, is a convolution reverb).
I think the other developers would better learn how to do this to really compete with that. I'm also a 10 years Cubase user but I use Cubase these days only for it can record automation for Neuron VS, a feature which the AU version of it seems not to have. Of course the audio (objects) editing is superior in Cubase and the PDC also, and I really hope Apple will take notice of that.

All this performance was achieved on a single G4 (!) processor running at 1,67 GHZ.

And this was possible because Logic bypasses (read switch off) the plugins that are not processing audio at that given moment.

Only one word about this: brilliant.

[jackson]

Dude, you should get Apple to pay you for that testimony! Seriously, there is simply no way any other host (well, except DP and possibly Samplitude) could handle that project.

[OMU]

jackson, dp is really heavy compared to Logic.
I tried it and it literally killed my cpu.
Maybe it does that but you need a faster computer than with Logic.
I couldn't work decent on my G4 in movie soundtracks with DP.
And compared to it Logic is just gorgeos (though DP has better audio object editing... that''s it, I said that again ).
Logic seems to be somehow behind the competition at pdc and audio editing in the arrange window. These are the most obvious differences to me (and a better PROPRIETARY audio pitch/time streching function, not this Serato "compatibility" thing).
And, Sacha, you should check the new version of Logic regarding the issues posted on page one of this thread. I'm sure you will find many improvements.

[christianmusicmaker]

Regarding Logic error messages, there's been an alltime favourite of mine:
"Circular structure detected. Please tell Emagic how you did that - OK".
No, I'm not kidding...

I have had on more than one occassion this message... "is that the correct time...you have not used Logic for a long time" or something along those lines. Seriously. Very strange. Maybe something to do with using a 2003 USB key in a new 2005 PC or something. Head scratcher for sure.

Not seen it since getting a replacement XSKey. It's possible the developers were having a bit of a laugh and thought rather than make all the error messages simple affairs like "out of memory" (seen that before), maybe they thought they would have a bit of fun by creating a very strange and totally unexpected collection of error messages just for the fun of it.

I was certainly surprised and amused by the message I saw!

[TheUDE]

They never had access to any Logic source code. Magix MIDI studio has been entirely programmed by Emagic (apart from said synth perhaps). I don't think Emagic (or Apple) would ever get their source code out of their hands.

Some of us have direct contact with Magix's Music Studio developers, and they do do their own coding. I wouldn't pretend to know exactly how the deal works (even Magix's support staff don't - I've asked), but they may get some guidance from emagic's programmers.

I also don't think Magix will continue to be using the Logic based line, simply because there's no updates possible. Their latest Music Studio is looking quite like an entirely new program allready (not based on either Logic or Samplitude that is).

I have the latest UK version (MS11). It's not at all like a new program, it's a plain development of previous versions - Midi Studio and Audio Studio, as before. Whether updates will be available beyond what GreyLion suggested above (Logic PC version 5.5.4) is anyone's guess at this stage.

The Magix synths have allways been present in Logic, but back in the days Magix products were distributed by Emagic, so they could kinda license a stripped down Logic version including the synths.

No, they haven't. Music Studio 6 had Percusor, Carpet Sweeper and the MTB-6. Logic got these about a year later. I haven't tracked the other synths I mentioned, but I suspect the same may apply there. I recall reading a review of a new version of Logic in Computer Music magazine, where they introduced those synths as new to Logic, and thinking "Hello - those screenshots look familiar!"

One logical assumption would be that the emagic/Magic deal specified that emagic would develop synths sponsored by Magix in return for incorporating them into Logic at a later date (the alternative *gasp* is that every Logic user has access to Magix-produced code in Logic!). Since the later synth additions need to be in AU format (and I don't think Magix has any expertise on the Mac), this seems the most likely explanation.

All in all, it seems a complex relationship. We're left with guesswork, informed or not. In terms of why Magix doesn't incorporate Logic's MIDI functions into Samplitude, I'd guess that would fall outside the terms of the agreement. The code for the two programs is also likely so different that it might be easier working from scratch.

Christianmusicr is spot-on with his comments about Music Maker's relationship to Samplitude. I doubt it's ever going to be a direct competitor to Samplitude, though! In the same way, I could envisage Apple/ex-emagic keeping a toe in the PC market with its relationship with Midi Studio (again, this is guesswork, obviously) - I doubt that Midi Studio is ever going to be a direct competitor with Logic on the Mac! It does its job well enough for quite a few of us.

[DHR53]

Sounds like some of the error warnings are "interpretations" of another language...

[spaceman]

Anyone know exactly how the "CLT" works? I've tried but it just aint happening! (I have Logic Express...)

this is indeed Logic Pro only btw

[beej]

I have had on more than one occassion this message... "is that the correct time...you have not used Logic for a long time" or something along those lines. Seriously. Very strange. Maybe something to do with using a 2003 USB key in a new 2005 PC or something. Head scratcher for sure.

This is to do with the XSkey and copy protection methods. The XSkey is apparently quite sophisticated and actually stores a log of recent activity in it. If you try to do (for example) repeated hack attempts and kill your key, sending it back to Emagic would let them see what you had been doing with to it.

One of the things it does is do some checking on times/dates, compared to what it sees as "normal" behaviour. Any "strange" time/date activity is flagged as suspicious (for example, if a user is resetting the time/date on their computer backwards to extend trial demo periods and so on). One of the criteria is if it hasn't been used for sometime, or your computer clock is reset. Obviously, there are legitimate reasons for this sometimes, hence Logic asking you to verify that the time/date is correct on your computer in case it's been inadverftently changed, which can happen occasionally.